5 ms·

Chinese hackers are arrested at the behest of the U.S. government

94 points by billconan 11y ago

chenster 11y ago
Of course, NSA is not a state-sponsored hacker organization.
- Buge 11y ago
  Well in this case we are asking China to stop hacking for commercial profits. The NSA doesn't hack for commercial profits. We aren't criticizing China for hacking the OPM in this case.
1971genocide 11y ago
The US calling on the Chinese to stop cyber-espionage is ISIS telling Al-Qaeda to stop raping women. I am sure the Chinese know this and are laughing at the arrogance of the US govt. The US govt are fools if they think china is just going to stop. The thing to do would be build a better system to protect systems critical to national security. Rather than spending all the money bankrolling the biggest surveillance system in the history of the world.
- dijit 11y ago
  Yeah, as others have mentioned, it's not like the US has a stellar record of playing nicely with cyber security in the worldwide arena. I'm sure most americans feel completely justified too "but we're the good guys, why shouldn't we be allowed to hack and backdoor everyone else?" but honestly, it's the same thing. the difference is that we don't speak Chinese so we're not privy to their propaganda.
  - happyscrappy 11y ago
    It always important in these type of arguments to make sure you speak of the US and not the West in general, that way the status quo is safe and nothing can be done.
TACIXAT 11y ago
I feel the US must have a gun to China's head right now. This is such a stark reversal from what we believed was going on over the past few years. The fact that China would agree to stop attacking the US, much less arrest those involved is mind blowing. Previously, it appeared that the hacking groups worked very closely with the government. They would attack targets that would directly benefit state run organizations. For China to flip and arrest the people who they employed tells me the US has some serious leverage right now. Either that or these arrests are just a show and won't stick.
- sharetea 11y ago
  Money talks, and China's in serious trouble and it desperately needs to cooperate with US. That's why the Chinese president came to US to resolve issues with cyberhacking. - $141.66bn capital left China in August http://bit.ly/1jh7E7z http://bit.ly/1jh7E7z - "by 2018 all of China's excess reserves — cash that it has on hand to use immediately — could be gone." http://read.bi/1jkK6hv http://read.bi/1jkK6hv - "actual Chinese GDP is probably a third lower than is officially reported" http://bit.ly/1JsjaC0 http://bit.ly/1JsjaC0 - "The exodus of factories moving out of China in search of lower-cost options in southeast and central Asia is accelerating, as manufacturers face increased pressure to reduce unit costs." http://bit.ly/1hw8Zp3 http://bit.ly/1hw8Zp3 - "average new home prices in China’s 70 major cities dropped 6.1 per cent" http://bit.ly/1jh9eGp http://bit.ly/1jh9eGp - "Total debt has reached 282 percent of GDP" http://bloom.bg/1evYSQ5 http://bloom.bg/1evYSQ5
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Wow, those are absolutely terrible economic indicators. That's not just reduced GDP; those are recession numbers.
    - sharetea 11y ago
      If you think that's terrible, this would be frightening. http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Business-News/2015/10/10/If-you-think-Chinas-equity-bubble-is-scary-check-out-bonds/?style=biz http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Business-News/2015/10/10/... "While an imminent collapse isn’t yet the base-case scenario for most forecasters, China’s 42.2 trillion yuan (US$6.7 trillion) bond market is flashing the same danger signs that triggered a tumble in stocks four months ago: stretched valuations, a surge in investor leverage and shrinking corporate profits. A reversal would add to challenges facing China’s ruling Communist Party, which has struggled to contain volatility in financial markets amid the deepest economic slowdown since 1990."
on_ 11y ago
Finally. It's refreshing to see US try to drive a stake between the corporate interests and a big monolithic government. This is a country that is spying on economic allies all over the world and callaborates by horse trading secrets to corporate interests. I understand that they can't talk about the length of the list, who is on it or the crimes they comitted, but just knowing they they have a list feels like justice to me, and these hackers will face retribution. China has to realize that it is hurting the financial position of the entire country and it's own credibility, by funneling secrets to private companies. If the reverse were true in the US, companies funneling secrets to the governement, it would be treason. America has the advantage of complete isolation of the government and corporations, which just isn't possible in a communist nation, so only in the most extreme cases do the two share finances or data. China approves state sanctioned hacking against their allies and citizens in private companies and it gives them an unfair advantage. If private companies had that sort of clout in the US, you would see laws structured favourably for corporations and they would yield a lot more political influence. China is the kind of country that would commit industrial espionage against private companies it is allied with economically and politically. If it were possible for them to configure Danish and Malaysian servers via network and physical intrusion, they would be able to tactically engineer a super virus that would affect >50% of a whole country, not to mention collatoral damage. It would hurt the companies reputation, jeopardize it's secrets and causing them millions in damages as well as the hundreds of thousands affectd. The article says: "Chinese prosecution would entail the United States sharing evidence linking the cyberintrusions to the individuals. And to do so could compromise sensitive information on how the U.S. government tracked the suspects." THESE ARE HACKERS. We shouldn't be afraid to get a win once in a while. We have to do something and a good first step would be to go to China, and tell them how we caught them breaking into private companies in the US and abroad, and we were able to document these records. They need to know that if they hit a multinational, a data center, resedential citizens, etc. that we are there, we will catch you and we will bring you to justice. Im glad the US is taking a stand against this. I look forward to watching these hackers face trial, but ultimately, their government and citizens should be ashamed of themselves. It's a shame the Cyber Security bill failed to pass the senate a few months ago, that way organizations would monitor for cyber threat indicators and they would be forced to protect us from these hackers. I think I echo the words of the unnamed source, when I say "Look, here’s these guys. Round them up".
kelukelugames 11y ago
Do you think China arrested talented hackers or dummy replacements?
- omginternets 11y ago
  Honest (albeit provocative) question: from a political point of view, does it matter? The fact that China is willing arrest any of their own citizens at the behest of the US government is a pretty big deal. I'm not sure exactly what it means, but China doesn't strike me as the kind of country that's especially keen on being the US's lapdog.
  - userbinator 11y ago
    China doesn't strike me as the kind of country that's especially keen on being the US's lapdog. I agree, and it's also possible that they arrest the real ones, sentence them, and then let them out the back door sometime later.
- fweespeech 11y ago
  I'd say they arrested talented hackers who weren't sanctioned by the Chinese Government. I don't see any indication anyone who was arrested was employed by the Chinese. It sends a very clear message: You need the Government as a patron if you want to engage in such activity. If you don't, well, we'll arrest you over when its to our benefit.
ivanca 11y ago
I feel bad for the hackers, their government orders them to hack some US servers, then their government arrests them for doing their job. Each a scapegoat if I ever saw one.
curiousjorge 11y ago
Reason why the Chinese might be cooperating is because the US has a very significant person of interest on their soils, one that the Chinese party is desperate to get back because this man knows state secrets and inner workings of the secretive CCP.
pkinsky 11y ago
This is probably somehow related: >U.S. officials could soon send a Navy ship steaming by a chain of man-made islands that China has built in the South China Sea, Pentagon officials said, potentially exacerbating tensions in an area in which Beijing is expanding its presence. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/08/u-s-navy-to-china-well-sail-our-ships-near-your-man-made-islands-whenever-we-want/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/08...
seansmccullough 11y ago
Doesn't make up for the OPM hack. Conspiracy theory: The CIA helped crash the Chinese stock market in response

94 points by billconan 11y ago

chenster 11y ago

Of course, NSA is not a state-sponsored hacker organization.

Buge 11y ago
Well in this case we are asking China to stop hacking for commercial profits. The NSA doesn't hack for commercial profits. We aren't criticizing China for hacking the OPM in this case.

1971genocide 11y ago

The US calling on the Chinese to stop cyber-espionage is ISIS telling Al-Qaeda to stop raping women. I am sure the Chinese know this and are laughing at the arrogance of the US govt. The US govt are fools if they think china is just going to stop. The thing to do would be build a better system to protect systems critical to national security. Rather than spending all the money bankrolling the biggest surveillance system in the history of the world.

dijit 11y ago
Yeah, as others have mentioned, it's not like the US has a stellar record of playing nicely with cyber security in the worldwide arena. I'm sure most americans feel completely justified too "but we're the good guys, why shouldn't we be allowed to hack and backdoor everyone else?" but honestly, it's the same thing. the difference is that we don't speak Chinese so we're not privy to their propaganda.
- happyscrappy 11y ago
  It always important in these type of arguments to make sure you speak of the US and not the West in general, that way the status quo is safe and nothing can be done.

TACIXAT 11y ago

I feel the US must have a gun to China's head right now. This is such a stark reversal from what we believed was going on over the past few years. The fact that China would agree to stop attacking the US, much less arrest those involved is mind blowing. Previously, it appeared that the hacking groups worked very closely with the government. They would attack targets that would directly benefit state run organizations. For China to flip and arrest the people who they employed tells me the US has some serious leverage right now. Either that or these arrests are just a show and won't stick.

sharetea 11y ago
Money talks, and China's in serious trouble and it desperately needs to cooperate with US. That's why the Chinese president came to US to resolve issues with cyberhacking. - $141.66bn capital left China in August http://bit.ly/1jh7E7z http://bit.ly/1jh7E7z - "by 2018 all of China's excess reserves — cash that it has on hand to use immediately — could be gone." http://read.bi/1jkK6hv http://read.bi/1jkK6hv - "actual Chinese GDP is probably a third lower than is officially reported" http://bit.ly/1JsjaC0 http://bit.ly/1JsjaC0 - "The exodus of factories moving out of China in search of lower-cost options in southeast and central Asia is accelerating, as manufacturers face increased pressure to reduce unit costs." http://bit.ly/1hw8Zp3 http://bit.ly/1hw8Zp3 - "average new home prices in China’s 70 major cities dropped 6.1 per cent" http://bit.ly/1jh9eGp http://bit.ly/1jh9eGp - "Total debt has reached 282 percent of GDP" http://bloom.bg/1evYSQ5 http://bloom.bg/1evYSQ5
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Wow, those are absolutely terrible economic indicators. That's not just reduced GDP; those are recession numbers.
  - sharetea 11y ago
    If you think that's terrible, this would be frightening. http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Business-News/2015/10/10/If-you-think-Chinas-equity-bubble-is-scary-check-out-bonds/?style=biz http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Business-News/2015/10/10/... "While an imminent collapse isn’t yet the base-case scenario for most forecasters, China’s 42.2 trillion yuan (US$6.7 trillion) bond market is flashing the same danger signs that triggered a tumble in stocks four months ago: stretched valuations, a surge in investor leverage and shrinking corporate profits. A reversal would add to challenges facing China’s ruling Communist Party, which has struggled to contain volatility in financial markets amid the deepest economic slowdown since 1990."

on_ 11y ago

Finally. It's refreshing to see US try to drive a stake between the corporate interests and a big monolithic government. This is a country that is spying on economic allies all over the world and callaborates by horse trading secrets to corporate interests. I understand that they can't talk about the length of the list, who is on it or the crimes they comitted, but just knowing they they have a list feels like justice to me, and these hackers will face retribution. China has to realize that it is hurting the financial position of the entire country and it's own credibility, by funneling secrets to private companies. If the reverse were true in the US, companies funneling secrets to the governement, it would be treason. America has the advantage of complete isolation of the government and corporations, which just isn't possible in a communist nation, so only in the most extreme cases do the two share finances or data. China approves state sanctioned hacking against their allies and citizens in private companies and it gives them an unfair advantage. If private companies had that sort of clout in the US, you would see laws structured favourably for corporations and they would yield a lot more political influence. China is the kind of country that would commit industrial espionage against private companies it is allied with economically and politically. If it were possible for them to configure Danish and Malaysian servers via network and physical intrusion, they would be able to tactically engineer a super virus that would affect >50% of a whole country, not to mention collatoral damage. It would hurt the companies reputation, jeopardize it's secrets and causing them millions in damages as well as the hundreds of thousands affectd. The article says: "Chinese prosecution would entail the United States sharing evidence linking the cyberintrusions to the individuals. And to do so could compromise sensitive information on how the U.S. government tracked the suspects." THESE ARE HACKERS. We shouldn't be afraid to get a win once in a while. We have to do something and a good first step would be to go to China, and tell them how we caught them breaking into private companies in the US and abroad, and we were able to document these records. They need to know that if they hit a multinational, a data center, resedential citizens, etc. that we are there, we will catch you and we will bring you to justice. Im glad the US is taking a stand against this. I look forward to watching these hackers face trial, but ultimately, their government and citizens should be ashamed of themselves. It's a shame the Cyber Security bill failed to pass the senate a few months ago, that way organizations would monitor for cyber threat indicators and they would be forced to protect us from these hackers. I think I echo the words of the unnamed source, when I say "Look, here’s these guys. Round them up".

kelukelugames 11y ago

Do you think China arrested talented hackers or dummy replacements?

omginternets 11y ago
Honest (albeit provocative) question: from a political point of view, does it matter? The fact that China is willing arrest any of their own citizens at the behest of the US government is a pretty big deal. I'm not sure exactly what it means, but China doesn't strike me as the kind of country that's especially keen on being the US's lapdog.
- userbinator 11y ago
  China doesn't strike me as the kind of country that's especially keen on being the US's lapdog. I agree, and it's also possible that they arrest the real ones, sentence them, and then let them out the back door sometime later.
fweespeech 11y ago
I'd say they arrested talented hackers who weren't sanctioned by the Chinese Government. I don't see any indication anyone who was arrested was employed by the Chinese. It sends a very clear message: You need the Government as a patron if you want to engage in such activity. If you don't, well, we'll arrest you over when its to our benefit.

ivanca 11y ago

I feel bad for the hackers, their government orders them to hack some US servers, then their government arrests them for doing their job. Each a scapegoat if I ever saw one.

curiousjorge 11y ago

Reason why the Chinese might be cooperating is because the US has a very significant person of interest on their soils, one that the Chinese party is desperate to get back because this man knows state secrets and inner workings of the secretive CCP.

pkinsky 11y ago

This is probably somehow related: >U.S. officials could soon send a Navy ship steaming by a chain of man-made islands that China has built in the South China Sea, Pentagon officials said, potentially exacerbating tensions in an area in which Beijing is expanding its presence. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/08/u-s-navy-to-china-well-sail-our-ships-near-your-man-made-islands-whenever-we-want/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/08...

seansmccullough 11y ago

Doesn't make up for the OPM hack. Conspiracy theory: The CIA helped crash the Chinese stock market in response