5 ms·

Weren't there also thousands of tariffs removed? The economic advantages of that might outweigh any loses from tighter copyright, and I suspect was the carrot t

Weren't there also thousands of tariffs removed? The economic advantages of that might outweigh any loses from tighter copyright, and I suspect was the carrot the US used to get all the copyright concessions. Everyone wants to export to the US but the US is traditionally too protectionist. Looking on the bright side of copyright. You never have to use somebody else's copyright work. You can always just make your own if you really want. Using somebody else's is just easier but not obligatory. See the popularity of open source software as a recourse against copyright restrictions on the commercial equivalents.

walterbell 11y ago
> Weren't there also thousands of tariffs removed? In one example, tariff reduction on some types of auto parts will move North American manufacturing jobs to Chinese factories who will be allowed to supply TPP member Japan, for export to North America. > You never have to use somebody else's copyright work. Some works are culturally significant, e.g. documentaries and historical fiction.
- Asbostos 11y ago
  Without an American-centric worldview, is there anything wrong with that moving of manufacturing jobs? It seems to be better for overall good in the world. It also serves American consumers who may get products cheaper. If we allow somebody else's property to dictate our culture, then we're already bound to the owner anyway. We already accept this with recently produced movies/music/etc. I wouldn't even call that culture, just paid-for passive entertainment much like paying for a ride at an amusement park. Once you've used it, all you're entitled to is your memories.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Cheaper products come with worker exploitation.
    - Asbostos 11y ago
      That implies the whole concept of developing nations is bad and we should try to prevent it. All of them have worker exploitation to some extent. Don't forget even exploited workers still choose where to work. They're not slaves. Furthermore, tariffs aren't introduced to protect foreign workers. That really isn't the reason for tariffs.
      - walterbell 11y ago
        Developing nations are not a "concept". See the history of colonialism. Do not fall prey to the prisoners dilemma fallacy of "competition" between countries with dramatically different labor standards. Humans can engage in a race to the top or a race to the bottom. The choice is ours. From http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKCN0PJ00F20150709?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKCN0PJ00F20150709?... "The United States is upgrading Malaysia from the lowest tier on its list of worst human trafficking centers ... The upgrade follows international scrutiny and outcry over Malaysian efforts to combat human trafficking after the discovery this year of scores of graves in people-smuggling camps near its northern border with Thailand. Malaysia has an estimated 2 million illegal migrant laborers, many of whom work in conditions of forced labor under employers and recruitment companies in sectors ranging from electronics to palm oil to domestic service."
      - DanBC 11y ago
        > Don't forget even exploited workers still choose where to work. We're not talking about long hours or low pay here - although those alone should be cause for concern, but about working conditions that cause death and permanent injury. They're not slaves, but they don't have that much choice about where to work. And they don't have any power within their place of work. Why do you think women "choose" to work in a clothing factory with no fire safety where they're locked in by supervisors? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/08/bangladesh-factory-fires-fashion-latest-crisis http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/08/bangladesh-fact... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/08/bangladesh-factory-fires-fashion-latest-crisis http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/08/bangladesh-fact... Or in clearly unsafe factories? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/19/rana-plaza-bangladesh-one-year-on http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/19/rana-plaza-bang... http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/apr/24/bangladesh-factories-building-collapse-garment-dhaka-rana-plaza-brands-hm-gap-workers-construction http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/apr/24/...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
yarrel 11y ago
> You never have to use somebody else's copyright work. You do however have to suffer the consequences of being falsely accused of doing so. And if you want to use your own copyrighted work it helps if there are platforms to support you in doing so that aren't either locked down by the incumbents or passing on the eye-watering costs of compliance to you. As for Free Software, forcing it to comply with censorship is trying to square a circle and is going to either criminalize or neuter it. You can always make your own, but you'll be breaking the law if you install it on your router or your tablet. What bright side?
zanny 11y ago
It it not just about content creation, it is about cultural participation. The insanely long and draconic copyright laws the US has cripples the national culture by restricting the common arts (which in modern times includes artful film and interactive media) to pretty much only things from the 19th century and earlier. It also destroys culture. It is why we have lost a supermajority of 20th century film, art, and music. Nobody can reproduce it to preserve it, so the original creators copies are destroyed or lost and the material is then lost forever, because its over a hundred years after its creation before is freed to us. These kinds of laws, if put in place and enforced for a century, would systemically ruin the cultures of all the participating nations and any innovation they may produce, because US IP law is so fundamentally broken that any truly creative endeavor will be crippled by false claims while anything successful will be kept behind paywalls and restricted access to control the social culture of the society for over a century, or longer if Disney gets its way.

walterbell 11y ago

> Weren't there also thousands of tariffs removed? In one example, tariff reduction on some types of auto parts will move North American manufacturing jobs to Chinese factories who will be allowed to supply TPP member Japan, for export to North America. > You never have to use somebody else's copyright work. Some works are culturally significant, e.g. documentaries and historical fiction.

Asbostos 11y ago
Without an American-centric worldview, is there anything wrong with that moving of manufacturing jobs? It seems to be better for overall good in the world. It also serves American consumers who may get products cheaper. If we allow somebody else's property to dictate our culture, then we're already bound to the owner anyway. We already accept this with recently produced movies/music/etc. I wouldn't even call that culture, just paid-for passive entertainment much like paying for a ride at an amusement park. Once you've used it, all you're entitled to is your memories.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Cheaper products come with worker exploitation.
  - Asbostos 11y ago
    That implies the whole concept of developing nations is bad and we should try to prevent it. All of them have worker exploitation to some extent. Don't forget even exploited workers still choose where to work. They're not slaves. Furthermore, tariffs aren't introduced to protect foreign workers. That really isn't the reason for tariffs.
    - walterbell 11y ago
      Developing nations are not a "concept". See the history of colonialism. Do not fall prey to the prisoners dilemma fallacy of "competition" between countries with dramatically different labor standards. Humans can engage in a race to the top or a race to the bottom. The choice is ours. From http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKCN0PJ00F20150709?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKCN0PJ00F20150709?... "The United States is upgrading Malaysia from the lowest tier on its list of worst human trafficking centers ... The upgrade follows international scrutiny and outcry over Malaysian efforts to combat human trafficking after the discovery this year of scores of graves in people-smuggling camps near its northern border with Thailand. Malaysia has an estimated 2 million illegal migrant laborers, many of whom work in conditions of forced labor under employers and recruitment companies in sectors ranging from electronics to palm oil to domestic service."
    - DanBC 11y ago
      > Don't forget even exploited workers still choose where to work. We're not talking about long hours or low pay here - although those alone should be cause for concern, but about working conditions that cause death and permanent injury. They're not slaves, but they don't have that much choice about where to work. And they don't have any power within their place of work. Why do you think women "choose" to work in a clothing factory with no fire safety where they're locked in by supervisors? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/08/bangladesh-factory-fires-fashion-latest-crisis http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/08/bangladesh-fact... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/08/bangladesh-factory-fires-fashion-latest-crisis http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/08/bangladesh-fact... Or in clearly unsafe factories? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/19/rana-plaza-bangladesh-one-year-on http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/19/rana-plaza-bang... http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/apr/24/bangladesh-factories-building-collapse-garment-dhaka-rana-plaza-brands-hm-gap-workers-construction http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/apr/24/...
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

yarrel 11y ago

> You never have to use somebody else's copyright work. You do however have to suffer the consequences of being falsely accused of doing so. And if you want to use your own copyrighted work it helps if there are platforms to support you in doing so that aren't either locked down by the incumbents or passing on the eye-watering costs of compliance to you. As for Free Software, forcing it to comply with censorship is trying to square a circle and is going to either criminalize or neuter it. You can always make your own, but you'll be breaking the law if you install it on your router or your tablet. What bright side?

zanny 11y ago

It it not just about content creation, it is about cultural participation. The insanely long and draconic copyright laws the US has cripples the national culture by restricting the common arts (which in modern times includes artful film and interactive media) to pretty much only things from the 19th century and earlier. It also destroys culture. It is why we have lost a supermajority of 20th century film, art, and music. Nobody can reproduce it to preserve it, so the original creators copies are destroyed or lost and the material is then lost forever, because its over a hundred years after its creation before is freed to us. These kinds of laws, if put in place and enforced for a century, would systemically ruin the cultures of all the participating nations and any innovation they may produce, because US IP law is so fundamentally broken that any truly creative endeavor will be crippled by false claims while anything successful will be kept behind paywalls and restricted access to control the social culture of the society for over a century, or longer if Disney gets its way.