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The word 'colonize' evokes thoughts of British, Dutch, Portuguese, etc colonization ~500-200 years ago. When thinking of colonizing a new planet, is there any

The word 'colonize' evokes thoughts of British, Dutch, Portuguese, etc colonization ~500-200 years ago. When thinking of colonizing a new planet, is there any information about who will control the resources of the colony? Will the USA control Martian resources if we get there first or will it be a collaborative effort like the Space Station?

clem 11y ago
At the moment that's something of a moot point. Is there a single resource on Mars that's worth the cost of transporting back to Earth? Until that's the case, it's only going to be the local Martian populace controlling the resources.
jerf 11y ago
Zigging from clem's zag, let me put this another way. There absolutely, positively, beyond a shadow of a doubt will be major political issues that arise from off-planet habitation. But, to be honest, not particularly all that more major than any number of issues that arise on Earth all the time, and we generally muddle through them. It'll be a long time before anyone would have any reason to start a shooting war over an off-planet resource. And science fiction has been predicting the near inevitability that eventually the off-planet colony will demand independence anyhow, a position I see no reason to modify or disagree with, personally. The structural forces in favor of that outcome are just overwhelming.
- stevesearer 11y ago
  I wonder how things might be handled differently depending on whether public interests (NASA) or private interests (SpaceX) colonize first.
  - Ankaios 11y ago
    I expect that they will be acting in concert.
- bewatson 11y ago
  In the movie "The Martian" (not a spoiler), there is a part where they describe Mars as international waters. I think it is a pretty interesting take on the subject: "There’s an international treaty (the Outer Space Treaty signed by the US and Soviet Union in 1967) saying no country can lay claim to anything that’s not Earth. And by another treaty, if you’re not in any country’s territory, maritime law applies. So Mars is “international waters.” NASA is an American nonmilitary organization, and it owns the Hab. So while I’m in the Hab, American law applies. As soon as I step outside, I’m in international waters. Then when I get in the rover, I’m back to American law." If and when this becomes a legitimate issue, it will be interesting to see who claims what, or if it will be it's own independent place.
chc 11y ago
According to the Outer Space Treaty, Mars and other celestial bodies are "the province of all mankind." Nobody can own or control them. However, if (for example) the US mines some Martian gold for its own use, I believe the US would be the proper owner of that specific gold, though it still wouldn't be able to claim any exclusive mineral rights to Mars.
- ilurk 11y ago
  History has shown that treaties are broken by parties whose interests are disserviced by them. They are there to maintain the status quo.
ilurk 11y ago
It will be interesting indeed but also worrisome. China also has plans for Mars and it has no collaborative efforts with the ISS. How much land will it claim? And how many colonies will demand secession? edited: typo :)
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
ForHackernews 11y ago
> When thinking of colonizing a new planet, is there any information about who will control the resources of the colony? Will the USA control Martian resources if we get there first or will it be a collaborative effort like the Space Station? Once they're self-sustaining, I'd say the Martians will control Martian resources. Good freaking luck trying to exert power over people several light-minutes away.
- nomailing 11y ago
  Yes. Also, if several nations have colonies on Mars, I would assume that they would all claim independence roughly at the same time and soon after would form some kind of pan-martian government. It just makes more sense to increase collaborations between colonies if you are so far away from earth. If there would be a US colony on Mars and a Chinese colony on Mars, these people would probably have more interactions with each other than with any person or nation on earth. There are huge advantages of exchange of goods between colonies, so that not every colony has to produce every special item or mine every kind of resource.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
TeMPOraL 11y ago
> The word 'colonize' evokes thoughts of British, Dutch, Portuguese, etc colonization ~500-200 years ago. Maybe in your generation. For me it evokes thoughts of Star Trek, of humanity as a whole expanding to outer space and building habitats in far away places. I really don't think people talking about colonizing Mars think about it in terms of colonial times. And this may be a source of various misunderstandings when debating manned space missions.

clem 11y ago

At the moment that's something of a moot point. Is there a single resource on Mars that's worth the cost of transporting back to Earth? Until that's the case, it's only going to be the local Martian populace controlling the resources.

jerf 11y ago

Zigging from clem's zag, let me put this another way. There absolutely, positively, beyond a shadow of a doubt will be major political issues that arise from off-planet habitation. But, to be honest, not particularly all that more major than any number of issues that arise on Earth all the time, and we generally muddle through them. It'll be a long time before anyone would have any reason to start a shooting war over an off-planet resource. And science fiction has been predicting the near inevitability that eventually the off-planet colony will demand independence anyhow, a position I see no reason to modify or disagree with, personally. The structural forces in favor of that outcome are just overwhelming.

stevesearer 11y ago
I wonder how things might be handled differently depending on whether public interests (NASA) or private interests (SpaceX) colonize first.
- Ankaios 11y ago
  I expect that they will be acting in concert.
bewatson 11y ago
In the movie "The Martian" (not a spoiler), there is a part where they describe Mars as international waters. I think it is a pretty interesting take on the subject: "There’s an international treaty (the Outer Space Treaty signed by the US and Soviet Union in 1967) saying no country can lay claim to anything that’s not Earth. And by another treaty, if you’re not in any country’s territory, maritime law applies. So Mars is “international waters.” NASA is an American nonmilitary organization, and it owns the Hab. So while I’m in the Hab, American law applies. As soon as I step outside, I’m in international waters. Then when I get in the rover, I’m back to American law." If and when this becomes a legitimate issue, it will be interesting to see who claims what, or if it will be it's own independent place.

chc 11y ago

According to the Outer Space Treaty, Mars and other celestial bodies are "the province of all mankind." Nobody can own or control them. However, if (for example) the US mines some Martian gold for its own use, I believe the US would be the proper owner of that specific gold, though it still wouldn't be able to claim any exclusive mineral rights to Mars.

ilurk 11y ago
History has shown that treaties are broken by parties whose interests are disserviced by them. They are there to maintain the status quo.

ilurk 11y ago

It will be interesting indeed but also worrisome. China also has plans for Mars and it has no collaborative efforts with the ISS. How much land will it claim? And how many colonies will demand secession? edited: typo :)

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

ForHackernews 11y ago

> When thinking of colonizing a new planet, is there any information about who will control the resources of the colony? Will the USA control Martian resources if we get there first or will it be a collaborative effort like the Space Station? Once they're self-sustaining, I'd say the Martians will control Martian resources. Good freaking luck trying to exert power over people several light-minutes away.

nomailing 11y ago
Yes. Also, if several nations have colonies on Mars, I would assume that they would all claim independence roughly at the same time and soon after would form some kind of pan-martian government. It just makes more sense to increase collaborations between colonies if you are so far away from earth. If there would be a US colony on Mars and a Chinese colony on Mars, these people would probably have more interactions with each other than with any person or nation on earth. There are huge advantages of exchange of goods between colonies, so that not every colony has to produce every special item or mine every kind of resource.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

TeMPOraL 11y ago

> The word 'colonize' evokes thoughts of British, Dutch, Portuguese, etc colonization ~500-200 years ago. Maybe in your generation. For me it evokes thoughts of Star Trek, of humanity as a whole expanding to outer space and building habitats in far away places. I really don't think people talking about colonizing Mars think about it in terms of colonial times. And this may be a source of various misunderstandings when debating manned space missions.