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I don't understand why Western Union et al aren't being held accountable, at the very least in the form of a class action lawsuit. It seems that either the mon

I don't understand why Western Union et al aren't being held accountable, at the very least in the form of a class action lawsuit. It seems that either the money transmitters aren't obeying the "Know Your Customer" laws (are they somehow exempt?), or they are knowingly allowing people to be victims of fraud to increase their profit. Making it much harder to transfer money anonymously seems both helpful in these cases, and lucrative for lawyers.

patio11 11y ago
Western Union is not exempt from KYC requirements. Most agents of it, however, sound something like "the owner of your local bodega." They'll satisfy themselves of your identity, either via personal knowledge or asking to see an ID. They'll then ring up your transfer. The person on the other end of the transfer is "Some person in Jamaica." That doesn't automatically scream FRAUD unless you say "Lottery" -- the overwhelming majority of Americans wiring money to someone in Jamaica are, in fact, supporting family or friends there. Fraudsters also tend to get pretty decent about instructing their marks to structure payments to avoid the obvious controls, for example by using mules [+] or by striping a $5,000 transfer into multiple smaller transfers on different days to different recipients controlled by the same operation. This is explained to the mark as something like "Oh, different tax bureau than last time" but it's operationally to avoid having velocity checks tripped at WU. [ + ] Witting or unwitting co-conspirators who receive money in their own name and then forward it to the criminals, often for a cut of the profits.
jefe_ 11y ago
The first time I tried to send money on moneygram to a real friend in Uganda, I had to jump through many of these hoops, speaking with a real moneygram representative on the phone. How do you know this person? Have you met this person face to face? Why are you sending this person money? It was annoying so I made my answers as vague as possible. He's a friend. Yes I've met the person. It's for sports equipment. They wanted real answers though and kept probing until finally I started explaining the drive from Kampala to the North I would take if I wanted to deliver the money myself and they were like ok you can send. I was sort of hoping to go from the scammed? queue to the whoa maybe terror financier? tier (where the questions are likely more interesting) but that did not happen which is probably for the best.

patio11 11y ago

Western Union is not exempt from KYC requirements. Most agents of it, however, sound something like "the owner of your local bodega." They'll satisfy themselves of your identity, either via personal knowledge or asking to see an ID. They'll then ring up your transfer. The person on the other end of the transfer is "Some person in Jamaica." That doesn't automatically scream FRAUD unless you say "Lottery" -- the overwhelming majority of Americans wiring money to someone in Jamaica are, in fact, supporting family or friends there. Fraudsters also tend to get pretty decent about instructing their marks to structure payments to avoid the obvious controls, for example by using mules [+] or by striping a $5,000 transfer into multiple smaller transfers on different days to different recipients controlled by the same operation. This is explained to the mark as something like "Oh, different tax bureau than last time" but it's operationally to avoid having velocity checks tripped at WU. [ + ] Witting or unwitting co-conspirators who receive money in their own name and then forward it to the criminals, often for a cut of the profits.

jefe_ 11y ago

The first time I tried to send money on moneygram to a real friend in Uganda, I had to jump through many of these hoops, speaking with a real moneygram representative on the phone. How do you know this person? Have you met this person face to face? Why are you sending this person money? It was annoying so I made my answers as vague as possible. He's a friend. Yes I've met the person. It's for sports equipment. They wanted real answers though and kept probing until finally I started explaining the drive from Kampala to the North I would take if I wanted to deliver the money myself and they were like ok you can send. I was sort of hoping to go from the scammed? queue to the whoa maybe terror financier? tier (where the questions are likely more interesting) but that did not happen which is probably for the best.