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>$83 is close enough to $75 that tweaks to tax policy can now be used to make renewable energy investment over fossil fuel virtually a no brainer decision The

>$83 is close enough to $75 that tweaks to tax policy can now be used to make renewable energy investment over fossil fuel virtually a no brainer decision The tweaks to tax policy you're referring to have already happened, and they still haven't made wind and solar competitive. Taxes and incentives being included are the only reason that the numbers quoted in this extremely misleading report are even remotely close to each other (although an 11% difference in a multi-trillion dollar industry is hardly insignificant).

crdoconnor 11y ago
>The tweaks to tax policy you're referring to have already happened, and they still haven't made wind and solar competitive They already did in the UK and Germany as the article points out. The political weight of utilities and the oil/natgas industry is significantly higher in the US which is probably why the US hasn't followed in Germany/UK's footsteps. Too many Senate re-election campaign funds being paid for by Kochs, etc.
- forgetsusername 11y ago
  >"too many Senate re-election campaign funds being paid for by Kochs, etc." Or maybe, just maybe, decision makers realize that this stuff doesn't have to be, nor should be, implemented overnight? Renewable energy innovation is occurring at an incredibly fast rate. The economy is a complex thing. Adoption will happen without distorting markets with overwrought subsisidies and burning money trying to accelerate it further.
  - brrt 11y ago
    I admire your optimism :-) but I'm not 100% sure that is true. If there wasn't a political drive behind this, wouldn't it have been easier to burn coal for the next 100 years?
    - talmand 11y ago
      There are lots of examples of innovations changing entire industries without a political drive being behind it. The day someone discovers a clean energy method that is easily cheaper than fossil fuels will be able to cash in because the market will switch to it quite handily, regardless of politics. The only political drive I really worry over with things like this is cronyism that prevents innovations in an effort to maintain status quo.
      - ZeroGravitas 11y ago
        This is already happening. Rooftop solar is disturbing monopoly utilities who are trying to stop it from disrupting them by slapping charges on customers who use it, or refusing to allow them to connect. In the UK, a government with ties to fossil fuel industry (where the money is centralised and easy to syphon into bribes and kickbacks) is sabotaging wind power in favour of fracking. Abbot in Australia etc. The technology is already there, it's all about the politics now.
  - crdoconnor 11y ago
    > Adoption will happen without distorting markets with overwrought subsisidies and burning money trying to accelerate it further. So you think that instead of introducing counter distortions to protect the environment we should just keep the distortions that are damaging it that we already have?
    - Shivetya 11y ago
      We need to carefully balance tax breaks for renewable energy solutions so that they do not stifle innovation. The key is to make buying renewable energy enough to entice consumers; both families and business; while at the same time not slowing the progress of innovation because the handouts are too profitable to give up.
      - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Tax breaks so often get sucked up by the supplier, so the consumer sees none of it. Prices will jack up until, even with a consumer tax break, its almost exactly the same deal as conventional energy. Anything else is leaving money on the table, which no rational supplier will do. Means, if tax breaks are not uniform (state by state for instance) then they server to impede new markets. Law of unintended consequences.
        crdoconnor 11y ago
        >Tax breaks so often get sucked up by the supplier, so the consumer sees none of it. This happens when the industry itself is very uncompetitive. Green energy is hardly "interns jockeying for a media job" competitive but it's still way above oil industry or finance industry levels.
        JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        The number of green-energy scandals grows yearly. They have no moral high ground to stand on in that regard. And all energy suppliers play in the same competitive sandbox, right?

crdoconnor 11y ago

>The tweaks to tax policy you're referring to have already happened, and they still haven't made wind and solar competitive They already did in the UK and Germany as the article points out. The political weight of utilities and the oil/natgas industry is significantly higher in the US which is probably why the US hasn't followed in Germany/UK's footsteps. Too many Senate re-election campaign funds being paid for by Kochs, etc.

forgetsusername 11y ago
>"too many Senate re-election campaign funds being paid for by Kochs, etc." Or maybe, just maybe, decision makers realize that this stuff doesn't have to be, nor should be, implemented overnight? Renewable energy innovation is occurring at an incredibly fast rate. The economy is a complex thing. Adoption will happen without distorting markets with overwrought subsisidies and burning money trying to accelerate it further.
- brrt 11y ago
  I admire your optimism :-) but I'm not 100% sure that is true. If there wasn't a political drive behind this, wouldn't it have been easier to burn coal for the next 100 years?
  - talmand 11y ago
    There are lots of examples of innovations changing entire industries without a political drive being behind it. The day someone discovers a clean energy method that is easily cheaper than fossil fuels will be able to cash in because the market will switch to it quite handily, regardless of politics. The only political drive I really worry over with things like this is cronyism that prevents innovations in an effort to maintain status quo.
    - ZeroGravitas 11y ago
      This is already happening. Rooftop solar is disturbing monopoly utilities who are trying to stop it from disrupting them by slapping charges on customers who use it, or refusing to allow them to connect. In the UK, a government with ties to fossil fuel industry (where the money is centralised and easy to syphon into bribes and kickbacks) is sabotaging wind power in favour of fracking. Abbot in Australia etc. The technology is already there, it's all about the politics now.
- crdoconnor 11y ago
  > Adoption will happen without distorting markets with overwrought subsisidies and burning money trying to accelerate it further. So you think that instead of introducing counter distortions to protect the environment we should just keep the distortions that are damaging it that we already have?
  - Shivetya 11y ago
    We need to carefully balance tax breaks for renewable energy solutions so that they do not stifle innovation. The key is to make buying renewable energy enough to entice consumers; both families and business; while at the same time not slowing the progress of innovation because the handouts are too profitable to give up.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      Tax breaks so often get sucked up by the supplier, so the consumer sees none of it. Prices will jack up until, even with a consumer tax break, its almost exactly the same deal as conventional energy. Anything else is leaving money on the table, which no rational supplier will do. Means, if tax breaks are not uniform (state by state for instance) then they server to impede new markets. Law of unintended consequences.
      - crdoconnor 11y ago
        >Tax breaks so often get sucked up by the supplier, so the consumer sees none of it. This happens when the industry itself is very uncompetitive. Green energy is hardly "interns jockeying for a media job" competitive but it's still way above oil industry or finance industry levels.
        JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        The number of green-energy scandals grows yearly. They have no moral high ground to stand on in that regard. And all energy suppliers play in the same competitive sandbox, right?