3 ms·

Apple Tablet Has No Intel Inside

21 points by pierrefar 17y ago

potatolicious 17y ago
This is significant - odds are PA Semi's chip is going to be ARM, not x86... we've suspected the ARM will make in-roads into "desktop" style computing (i.e., not just phones and PDAs), but this is much sooner than I honestly expected. This may be only the first step in the demise of the Atom - ARM chips are getting more and more competitive for "real" computing every single day.
- nopassrecover 17y ago
  Is it really that significant? Designs haven't been released for the tablet yet but it sounds more like a mobile device than a "desktop" style device. Most similar devices use ARM chips right? "As of 2007, about 98 percent of the more than a billion mobile phones sold each year use at least one ARM processor.[3] As of 2009, ARM processors account for approximately 90% of all embedded 32-bit RISC processors. ARM processors are used extensively in consumer electronics, including PDAs, mobile phones, digital media and music players, hand-held game consoles, calculators and computer peripherals such as hard drives and routers."
  - zandorg 17y ago
    The wierd thing about Acorn Risc Machines is that IBM invented the RISC architecture, and some Brits made it a product (200MHZ StrongARM). So the PowerPC is competing with the ARM, when the ARM came later! Pretty amazing story behind that chip.
    - pyre 17y ago
      > So the PowerPC is competing with the ARM, when the ARM came later! How is that amazing? Unless they were created at the exact same time, one had to come after the other, and so long as they target the same niche they will compete.
      - zandorg 17y ago
        Just because you'd assume IBM to win. I think the ARM story is probably best explained on Wikipedia, thus making my comments kind of not very useful. But for my opinion, I think the Psion portable computers and EPOC (the Psion OS) and Nokia made the ARM chip very popular.
- notauser 17y ago
  For the general market I don't believe ARM will get far until there's a Windows ARM port available. I'm a 100% Linux user and my Atom netbook is a pain-free experience. All software (including Flash and Skype) works out of the box as intended. Compared that to my experience of running Linux on PPC where even open source software didn't always work perfectly. The experience for a Windows user is even more extreme; they are comparing a Windows machine which is the target/test platform for every vendor, to a Linux ARM machine where most software can be kind of sort of made to work, if you try hard enough. Atom's x86 ISA makes all that pain go away. With battery life in atom systems beating 8 hours (i.e. a full days work and charge over night) there pain reduction of moving to ARM isn't as big as gaining binary compatibility. The only people to whom this doesn't apply are Apple, who have two key things: - A much stronger control over their platform and developers. - Developers who are already used to multi-platform development thanks to PPC fat binaries and shared libraries between the iPhone and OS X. Therefore I believe it will be necessary for Microsoft to _really_ support an ARM port before Atom is in any danger at all. And right now their chips are frankly good enough that I can't see Microsoft really being that motivated.
- ssp 17y ago
  One thing worth considering is that parts of Intel may not so thrilled about the Atom. It's a really low-margin chip and it's being manufactured at TSMC, both of which are somewhat out-of-character for Intel. When Craig Barrett left as chairman of Intel's board last year, they didn't follow the usual plan of having the CEO take over as chairman and a new guy taking over as CEO. Instead, Barrett just left with Otellini staying as CEO. It's tempting to speculate that Barrett, who rose up through the manufacturing arm of Intel, was unhappy about the commoditizing and outsourcing going on. Maybe other parts of Intel are unhappy too. See this: http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2009/01/27/45340/craig-barrett-resignation-sparks-intel-manufacturing-queries.htm http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2009/01/27/45340/c... . It's difficult to see what alternative Intel has though. For consumers Windows is dying and the x86 lock-in is dying with it, so if they don't compete on price, ARM will eat their business from below. But a market-leading company like Intel really hates it when their main product gets commoditized.
frisco 17y ago
This article treats the Apple Tablet as obvious fact. Has this actually been established? I know the rumors have hit a fever pitch, but has there been anything 100% credible yet?
- necubi 17y ago
  Yes, in so far as major, main-stream news organizations (NYTimes, Wall St. Journal, etc.) have treated it as fact for months now. Additionally, if Apple were not about to announce a tablet they would have squashed this ages ago, as they have squashed previous out-of-control rumors that had no basis, like rumors about the imminent release of an ebook reader or netbook. Apple knows it can't allow this level of hype to build up if nothing is to come from it, and it knows that if February comes without a tablet announcement its stock with take a huge hit. Therefore, their silence is as good a confirmation as needed that the tablet does indeed exist and will indeed be announced soon.
  - icefox 17y ago
    So what you are saying is that I could post a blog saying anything I want and get a lot of traffic, apple wont complain, and places like HN will post it?
    - jonknee 17y ago
      You're at least 10 years late to the party of making an Apple rumors site, but yes that's definitely something you could do.
    - necubi 17y ago
      No, because one blog post from (sorry to say) an un-credible source is not comparable to the current noise around the Apple tablet. Again, major newspapers have reported on the tablet as fact. Major sources in the apple-news world (DaringFireball, AppleInsider, MacRumors, etc.) have done the same. Since this is widely being treated as fact, if it were not true Apple would be forced to do something about it, especially as they will be having a special media event in January after which their stock will fall precipitously if they do not announce a tablet.
wendroid 17y ago
> However, in tech circles and beyond, Apple's Tablet is the only game in town. That's a circle of hell I missed when reading Dante.
GHFigs 17y ago
Article Has No News Inside
nico_h 17y ago
WTF is this drivel doing here ? - "Intel 'had'[citation needed] a lock on the netbook market" - The Apple tablet isn't released yet. - Is the (as yet unreleased) Apple tablet(?) going to be a netbook by any stretch of the word ? - The "Windows that runs Office" (XP, Vista, 7) doesn't run on ARM. - ARM wasn't (isn't) as powerful as Atom. Neither is stuff from VIA or AMD in the price/power range. - Apple did buy PA Semi for some reason. - PA Semi has experience in power efficient Power architecture. (http://web.archive.org/web/20070927205658/http://www.pasemi.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20070927205658/http://www.pasemi....) Something is wrong with the tenses of this 'article'. "and it was widely assumed that the chip giant would win the Tablet contract at all costs. " :: would try to win at all cost. would need to win at all cost . was/is willing to win at all cost. ???? "Intel can't be happy sitting on the sidelines as Apple's new product catches on with consumers. " Shouldn't present be replaced by speculative futur ?
tvon 17y ago
I so want this damn thing to be released (along with the MS tablet at CES) so we can stop dealing with all these speculations and renderings.

21 points by pierrefar 17y ago

This is significant - odds are PA Semi's chip is going to be ARM, not x86... we've suspected the ARM will make in-roads into "desktop" style computing (i.e., not just phones and PDAs), but this is much sooner than I honestly expected. This may be only the first step in the demise of the Atom - ARM chips are getting more and more competitive for "real" computing every single day.

nopassrecover 17y ago
Is it really that significant? Designs haven't been released for the tablet yet but it sounds more like a mobile device than a "desktop" style device. Most similar devices use ARM chips right? "As of 2007, about 98 percent of the more than a billion mobile phones sold each year use at least one ARM processor.[3] As of 2009, ARM processors account for approximately 90% of all embedded 32-bit RISC processors. ARM processors are used extensively in consumer electronics, including PDAs, mobile phones, digital media and music players, hand-held game consoles, calculators and computer peripherals such as hard drives and routers."
- zandorg 17y ago
  The wierd thing about Acorn Risc Machines is that IBM invented the RISC architecture, and some Brits made it a product (200MHZ StrongARM). So the PowerPC is competing with the ARM, when the ARM came later! Pretty amazing story behind that chip.
  - pyre 17y ago
    > So the PowerPC is competing with the ARM, when the ARM came later! How is that amazing? Unless they were created at the exact same time, one had to come after the other, and so long as they target the same niche they will compete.
    - zandorg 17y ago
      Just because you'd assume IBM to win. I think the ARM story is probably best explained on Wikipedia, thus making my comments kind of not very useful. But for my opinion, I think the Psion portable computers and EPOC (the Psion OS) and Nokia made the ARM chip very popular.
notauser 17y ago
For the general market I don't believe ARM will get far until there's a Windows ARM port available. I'm a 100% Linux user and my Atom netbook is a pain-free experience. All software (including Flash and Skype) works out of the box as intended. Compared that to my experience of running Linux on PPC where even open source software didn't always work perfectly. The experience for a Windows user is even more extreme; they are comparing a Windows machine which is the target/test platform for every vendor, to a Linux ARM machine where most software can be kind of sort of made to work, if you try hard enough. Atom's x86 ISA makes all that pain go away. With battery life in atom systems beating 8 hours (i.e. a full days work and charge over night) there pain reduction of moving to ARM isn't as big as gaining binary compatibility. The only people to whom this doesn't apply are Apple, who have two key things: - A much stronger control over their platform and developers. - Developers who are already used to multi-platform development thanks to PPC fat binaries and shared libraries between the iPhone and OS X. Therefore I believe it will be necessary for Microsoft to _really_ support an ARM port before Atom is in any danger at all. And right now their chips are frankly good enough that I can't see Microsoft really being that motivated.
ssp 17y ago
One thing worth considering is that parts of Intel may not so thrilled about the Atom. It's a really low-margin chip and it's being manufactured at TSMC, both of which are somewhat out-of-character for Intel. When Craig Barrett left as chairman of Intel's board last year, they didn't follow the usual plan of having the CEO take over as chairman and a new guy taking over as CEO. Instead, Barrett just left with Otellini staying as CEO. It's tempting to speculate that Barrett, who rose up through the manufacturing arm of Intel, was unhappy about the commoditizing and outsourcing going on. Maybe other parts of Intel are unhappy too. See this: http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2009/01/27/45340/craig-barrett-resignation-sparks-intel-manufacturing-queries.htm http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2009/01/27/45340/c... . It's difficult to see what alternative Intel has though. For consumers Windows is dying and the x86 lock-in is dying with it, so if they don't compete on price, ARM will eat their business from below. But a market-leading company like Intel really hates it when their main product gets commoditized.

frisco 17y ago

This article treats the Apple Tablet as obvious fact. Has this actually been established? I know the rumors have hit a fever pitch, but has there been anything 100% credible yet?

necubi 17y ago
Yes, in so far as major, main-stream news organizations (NYTimes, Wall St. Journal, etc.) have treated it as fact for months now. Additionally, if Apple were not about to announce a tablet they would have squashed this ages ago, as they have squashed previous out-of-control rumors that had no basis, like rumors about the imminent release of an ebook reader or netbook. Apple knows it can't allow this level of hype to build up if nothing is to come from it, and it knows that if February comes without a tablet announcement its stock with take a huge hit. Therefore, their silence is as good a confirmation as needed that the tablet does indeed exist and will indeed be announced soon.
- icefox 17y ago
  So what you are saying is that I could post a blog saying anything I want and get a lot of traffic, apple wont complain, and places like HN will post it?
  - jonknee 17y ago
    You're at least 10 years late to the party of making an Apple rumors site, but yes that's definitely something you could do.
  - necubi 17y ago
    No, because one blog post from (sorry to say) an un-credible source is not comparable to the current noise around the Apple tablet. Again, major newspapers have reported on the tablet as fact. Major sources in the apple-news world (DaringFireball, AppleInsider, MacRumors, etc.) have done the same. Since this is widely being treated as fact, if it were not true Apple would be forced to do something about it, especially as they will be having a special media event in January after which their stock will fall precipitously if they do not announce a tablet.

wendroid 17y ago

> However, in tech circles and beyond, Apple's Tablet is the only game in town. That's a circle of hell I missed when reading Dante.

GHFigs 17y ago

Article Has No News Inside

nico_h 17y ago

WTF is this drivel doing here ? - "Intel 'had'[citation needed] a lock on the netbook market" - The Apple tablet isn't released yet. - Is the (as yet unreleased) Apple tablet(?) going to be a netbook by any stretch of the word ? - The "Windows that runs Office" (XP, Vista, 7) doesn't run on ARM. - ARM wasn't (isn't) as powerful as Atom. Neither is stuff from VIA or AMD in the price/power range. - Apple did buy PA Semi for some reason. - PA Semi has experience in power efficient Power architecture. (http://web.archive.org/web/20070927205658/http://www.pasemi.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20070927205658/http://www.pasemi....) Something is wrong with the tenses of this 'article'. "and it was widely assumed that the chip giant would win the Tablet contract at all costs. " :: would try to win at all cost. would need to win at all cost . was/is willing to win at all cost. ???? "Intel can't be happy sitting on the sidelines as Apple's new product catches on with consumers. " Shouldn't present be replaced by speculative futur ?

tvon 17y ago

I so want this damn thing to be released (along with the MS tablet at CES) so we can stop dealing with all these speculations and renderings.