5 ms·

This is nothing new, of course. NeXTStep introduced things like ~/Apps, /LocalLibrary, and /LocalApps back in the early 1990s. Daniel J. Bernstein, around the

by JdeBP 11y ago

This is nothing new, of course. NeXTStep introduced things like ~/Apps, /LocalLibrary, and /LocalApps back in the early 1990s. Daniel J. Bernstein, around the turn of the century, proposed a /package hierarchy (for package management without the need for conflict resolution) and a /command directory. (http://cr.yp.to/slashpackage.html http://cr.yp.to/slashpackage.html) Their major problem was the idea that one had to register things with what was to most of the world just some bloke on another continent. But they had concepts like a hierarchical package naming scheme ("admin/", "mail/", &c.), self-contained build trees with versioned names, and an "index" directory full of symbolic links.

gcb0 11y ago
the problem is exactly that. some group in an ivory tower refuses to (or can't?) move. most of posix is like that. Linux "standard" for gui stuff is still some definition from IBM to normalize DOS apps (reason why F10 open menus, copy paste with ctrl+ins, shift+ins, etc). then people that can't work together with others (eg Jobs) does retarded things like /localLibrary which benefit nobody, not even themselves. just throw everything up. then if those folks succeed despite that, it becomes the new immutable thing to follow, like gnome is doing with following blindly apple ui specs. edit: i never tried to contribute to any larger standard. i did develop against most of them, cursed at their anachronistic ways and coded around it praising consistency. so i am pretty sure i am part of the problem described above. I'm not saying the fine people in those ivory towers are the problem. I'm glad we have that little help for world consistency. it's just not enough.
- JdeBP 11y ago
  You're taking received wisdom from Wikipedia, and it's wrong. Common User Access was for normalizing IBM applications, across its then hardware platforms: the PC, System/3x, and System/370. Indeed, it's most promiment PC success was 32-bit IBM OS/2, which implemented the later CUA 91 and which most definitely wasn't DOS.
  - gcb0 11y ago
    well, whatever the actual reason, i actually (used to) consult it when writing CURSE applications only because it is the closest we have for a curses application usability standard. where it came from originally is not much of concern. but the fact that it is the best we have, is.
    - spacemanmatt 11y ago
      It wasn't bad. I appreciate the attempt to reduce my cognitive load.
smegger001 11y ago
I do not seem to understand, so forgive my ignorance if you will but; Why do we need a /Apps directory isn't that what /bin /sbin and /usr/bin are for? And as for /LocalApps is that not what /home/$user/bin is for? this seems fairly redundant, or needless wheel reinventing?
- BinaryIdiot 11y ago
  Probably just more intuitive more than anything else. Someone without prior knowledge to the operating system (or even computers in general) and things like /Apps is really obvious where as /bin and /sbin understanding is really going to depending on how much someone knows about computers.
- nailer 11y ago
  Not advocating for one of the other, but they're not the same. /Apps is based on the application that supplied the files, /usr vs / is based on whether necessary to boot the OS, /bin vs /lib vs /share based on the file type.
- lottin 11y ago
  As far as I know, /Apps is for packages that ship with their own versions of shared libraries and everything else the program needs to run; all files are installed in one directory under /Apps, instead of where they actually belong in the Unix directory structure.
- wtallis 11y ago
  On NeXTSTEP and OS X, the /Apps (/Applications) directory is for self-contained application bundles that hold a GUI application and all of its dependencies that aren't part of the base OS, and they can be installed and removed by dragging and dropping that one bundle (which is a directory, but appears in the graphical file manager as a single object). There was also a distinction between locally-installed stuff and network resources which made things a little more complex but more manageable if you were actually working in an office full of NeXT boxes. OS X still has /usr and it still has pretty much the same meaning, but GUI apps live in a separate and more user-friendly domain.
brbsix 11y ago
This sounds somewhat similar to /opt (albeit more complicated), wherein programs are located in /opt/package or /opt/provider. For example, the entirety of Sublime Text is stored in /opt/sublime_text and Google programs are stored in subdirs of /opt/google.

by JdeBP 11y ago

gcb0 11y ago

the problem is exactly that. some group in an ivory tower refuses to (or can't?) move. most of posix is like that. Linux "standard" for gui stuff is still some definition from IBM to normalize DOS apps (reason why F10 open menus, copy paste with ctrl+ins, shift+ins, etc). then people that can't work together with others (eg Jobs) does retarded things like /localLibrary which benefit nobody, not even themselves. just throw everything up. then if those folks succeed despite that, it becomes the new immutable thing to follow, like gnome is doing with following blindly apple ui specs. edit: i never tried to contribute to any larger standard. i did develop against most of them, cursed at their anachronistic ways and coded around it praising consistency. so i am pretty sure i am part of the problem described above. I'm not saying the fine people in those ivory towers are the problem. I'm glad we have that little help for world consistency. it's just not enough.

JdeBP 11y ago
You're taking received wisdom from Wikipedia, and it's wrong. Common User Access was for normalizing IBM applications, across its then hardware platforms: the PC, System/3x, and System/370. Indeed, it's most promiment PC success was 32-bit IBM OS/2, which implemented the later CUA 91 and which most definitely wasn't DOS.
- gcb0 11y ago
  well, whatever the actual reason, i actually (used to) consult it when writing CURSE applications only because it is the closest we have for a curses application usability standard. where it came from originally is not much of concern. but the fact that it is the best we have, is.
  - spacemanmatt 11y ago
    It wasn't bad. I appreciate the attempt to reduce my cognitive load.

smegger001 11y ago

I do not seem to understand, so forgive my ignorance if you will but; Why do we need a /Apps directory isn't that what /bin /sbin and /usr/bin are for? And as for /LocalApps is that not what /home/$user/bin is for? this seems fairly redundant, or needless wheel reinventing?

BinaryIdiot 11y ago
Probably just more intuitive more than anything else. Someone without prior knowledge to the operating system (or even computers in general) and things like /Apps is really obvious where as /bin and /sbin understanding is really going to depending on how much someone knows about computers.
nailer 11y ago
Not advocating for one of the other, but they're not the same. /Apps is based on the application that supplied the files, /usr vs / is based on whether necessary to boot the OS, /bin vs /lib vs /share based on the file type.
lottin 11y ago
As far as I know, /Apps is for packages that ship with their own versions of shared libraries and everything else the program needs to run; all files are installed in one directory under /Apps, instead of where they actually belong in the Unix directory structure.
wtallis 11y ago
On NeXTSTEP and OS X, the /Apps (/Applications) directory is for self-contained application bundles that hold a GUI application and all of its dependencies that aren't part of the base OS, and they can be installed and removed by dragging and dropping that one bundle (which is a directory, but appears in the graphical file manager as a single object). There was also a distinction between locally-installed stuff and network resources which made things a little more complex but more manageable if you were actually working in an office full of NeXT boxes. OS X still has /usr and it still has pretty much the same meaning, but GUI apps live in a separate and more user-friendly domain.

brbsix 11y ago

This sounds somewhat similar to /opt (albeit more complicated), wherein programs are located in /opt/package or /opt/provider. For example, the entirety of Sublime Text is stored in /opt/sublime_text and Google programs are stored in subdirs of /opt/google.