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> Do they mean "disarm the entire population", "disarm all criminals", "disarm the mentally unstable", "institute severe penalties for doing X, Y or Z with guns
by dalke 11y ago
> Do they mean "disarm the entire population", "disarm all criminals", "disarm the mentally unstable", "institute severe penalties for doing X, Y or Z with guns", or something else?
"Gun control", in a policy sense that you want, where people define their terms, does not mean that. I gave you two sources with similar definitions. It means simply the laws related to the the production, sale, ownership, use, etc. of a gun and its ancillary components.
If your example regulations were in place, they would be considered part of gun control. Even if they are not in place, there can still be gun control.
The question I think you want to ask is "what gun controls do you want"? Not "what is gun control."
For purposes of this discussion, define "gun control" as having policies which are essentially identical to those of (your preference) Australia, or Sweden, or Japan.
I think that's as simple and unambiguous as you are going to get, and will satisfy most people interested in stricter laws.
> In the next sentence they are talking about cops not having to worry about people shooting them
That comment is a continuation of the thread, which started with statistics of the number of civilians killed by police officers.
> That, to me, implies that, to this person, "gun control" might mean something approaching total disarmament of the population, criminals included.
Again, "gun control" here is a synecdoche to mean "stricter gun control." Countries with strict gun controls, like Australia and Sweden, have a lot of private gun ownership, for hunting and target shooting. So no, it doesn't necessarily mean 'total disarmament of the population'.
Here's a hypothetical that might help understand the difference. Suppose hunting rifles are allowed, but hand guns are not. It's pretty hard to conceal a rifle as you go around town, especially since the law requires that it be locked up in a case when in transit, or stored in the house.
This means it's less likely that a petty thief will be carrying a gun to commit a crime. This means it's less likely that a drug dealer will be carrying a gun as protection against potential thieves.
In general, many police reports which involve the forceful police attack on what turns out to be the wrong person are justified because of the likelihood that the actual criminal is likely to have a gun, and may respond with a gunfight. For example, SWAT teams are often called out for low-level drug dealers. The assumption is that a dealer is likely to be armed. The team is figuratively armed for bear; expecting the worst possible case. Sometimes they end up killing or seriously injuring innocent people, including by forceful entry of the wrong house.
If years of SWAT team calls were go out, where no one ever has a gun, then it will be increasingly hard to justify the expense of a SWAT team and the deaths that sometimes occur when in a hair-trigger mode.
That was the statistics that the OP was referring to. That was the gun control style that the earlier poster was referring to. Very few seriously propose a 'total disarmament of the population', and if you had researched the topic you would have quickly learned that.
- rebootthesystem 11y ago> The question I think you want to ask is "what gun controls do you want"? Not "what is gun control." No, that IS the question I, in fact, asked. I did not ask "what is gun control?". Actually, what I asked is a bit more subtle than "what gun controls do you want?". This is what I asked, quoting: "How, specifically, would you define "gun control"?" Here, "would you define" is a very precise modifier. And the context, perhaps lost, was that the OP implied "gun control" was the "elephant in the room" when it came to police interacting with civilians. That's a bit different from "what gun controls do you want?" but definitely NOT "what is gun control". If you think that's what I asked you misread my question. Please don't try to push me into a corner with "if you had researched the topic". I actually know the topic very well. Here I am trying to understand what someone else thinks gun control has to be, their opinion or ideas, not the "book" definition. I know that latter very well, I care to learn the former. Not sure how else to ask this. I thought I was clear. So, I'll try again, for the last time and then I'll unilaterally drop my attempt to understand. What would you --not wikipedia, the dictionary or politicians-- you (or the person I originally asked) suggest would be the approach to gun control legislation that would allow police officers to not worry about whether or not civilians are armed when approaching them? I will repeat, because this medium sucks at conveying emotion, I am not critical of anything you have said nor am I challenging anything anyone has said. I am simply looking for someone to perhaps put up a five to ten bullet-point list delineating what form of "gun control" they think would provide a solution for the stated scenario, one where a cop is concerned about a citizen being armed when approaching them. What set of rules would constitute this version of "gun control" that would produce that reality? BTW, I don't have an answer for that. Then again, I did not propose "gun control" was the elephant in that room. To clarify further, I am not for or against guns. I am completely neutral about them. I am simply trying to learn because, frankly, I don't know what the solution might be or if we actually need one.
- dalke 11y ago> What would you --not wikipedia, the dictionary or politicians-- you (or the person I originally asked) suggest would be the approach to gun control legislation that would allow police officers to not worry about whether or not civilians are armed when approaching them? I gave one: implement national laws and policies equivalent to what's in Australia, Sweden, or Japan; wait the few years for use/presence of guns to go down; observe that the justifications for the stark use of police force have gone down; no longer permit those justifications.