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Doesn't it blow your mind that there are no "standards of engineering" or whatever for software? There's no licensure body for software engineers who build sof
by Laaw 11y ago
Doesn't it blow your mind that there are no "standards of engineering" or whatever for software? There's no licensure body for software engineers who build software running your car, and therefore no accountability on a personal level.
When an engineer builds a bridge, she has to personally sign off on the bridge, saying it's safe, and is risking not only her professional career, but I think she can also be jailed and held criminally liable if the bridge kills people due to negligence.
It blows my mind, at least, that no such thing exists for software.
- jes 11y agoIf you could have perfectly safe software, without requiring individual engineers to be licensed, would that be acceptable to you? I'm not asking if you think such a thing would be possible or not - I'm asking if you would accept an alternate means of getting what I think we both want.
- ambrop7 11y agoThere are many standards of engineering involving software. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_26262 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_26262 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_62304 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_62304 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MISRA_C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MISRA_C
- angersock 11y agoThe big problem with all those standards, frankly, is that you've gotta pay money to actually evaluate them. There aren't any guarantees that they'll be useful, that they'll match the modern development processes in your language, that they'll fit your problem domain, etc. Those standards are there primarily to make the publisher a buck--not to represent the codified wisdom of up-to-date practitioners in a field. Until we've got a truly open-source standard for people to code against, we should stop wringing our hands about these things.
- dogma1138 11y agoDoes any one really thinks that true? http://www.ldra.com/en/software-quality-test-tools/group/by-industry-standard/automotive-iso-26262-misra http://www.ldra.com/en/software-quality-test-tools/group/by-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Industry_Software_Reliability_Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Industry_Software_Reliab... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MISRA_C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MISRA_C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_26262 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_26262
- mreiland 11y agoYOU STOP THAT RIGHT NOW. OUR LORD AND SAVIOR UNCLE BOB MARTIN SEZ WE NEED STANDARDS BEFORE THE GUBBERMINT MAKES US DO IT. FOR THE LOVE OF <deity> DO NOT CONTINUE POINTING OUT THAT STANDARDS HAVE NECESSARILY SPRUNG UP IN SEGMENTS OF THE INDUSTRY THAT INVOLVE RISK. UNCLE BOB WILL FIND YOU... UNCLE BOB KNOWS ALL, SEES ALL... PUNISHES ALL. /end sarcasm
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- Laaw 11y agoNone of those are what I described, though.
- dogma1138 11y ago> Doesn't it blow your mind that there are no "standards of engineering" or whatever for software? ISO, IEC, etc. > There's no licensure body for software engineers who build software running your car, and therefore no accountability on a personal level. MISRA, SCSC, etc.
- Laaw 11y agoCombine my individual sentences, as I did, and try again.
- eru 11y agoNot sure whether software is the domain that standards should be applied to. Software is just a tool. If you use software to build a bridge, bridge standards should apply. If you use software to build a car, car standards should apply. If you use software to build a fart app, fart app standards should apply. (Which frankly, don't have to be very high.)
- slavik81 11y agoA company I worked for had a permit to practice and required engineering sign-off for each release.