7 ms·

MMM has at least two rental properties and is a phoney. He can teach his kid to be a rentier by borrowing long and taking advantage of the separation between t

MMM has at least two rental properties and is a phoney. He can teach his kid to be a rentier by borrowing long and taking advantage of the separation between the value of labour vs assets when fiat money is over-issued by private banks. And how to run a web-site about being frugal whilst deriving rental income from three families who cannot save because they are busy working hard to keep MMM pumping out half-truths on the internet. Can we all take up three times as many houses as we need and live off the rental income siphoned off from the labour of others? No.

OrwellianChild 11y ago
If I may paraphrase: "MMM can teach his kid how to make money on investments in real estate and make profits from renting his owned (financed) assets. He can also teach his kid how to share what he's learned about not over-spending on depreciating assets." Then there's something in there about people who choose to rent being taken advantage of by people who choose to be landlords, but I don't understand it well enough to take your meaning.
- branchless 11y ago
  Don't paraphrase me, thanks.
ghaff 11y ago
I think you're being a bit unfair. I have no doubt he is pretty frugal. That said, I'm not a huge fan of his schtick but recognize that there are people who probably benefit from the over-the-top exhortations to avoid spending money. A lot of people fritter away a lot on things that they don't need and may not even especially enjoy. Which has been my main takeaway on those occasions when I've skimmed his site. Whatever works.
- branchless 11y ago
  The frugal stuff is rubbish. He can be frugal because the main outgoing for any family is rent. He's taking in two rents. The rest is just a cheap show. The reason why we are all suffering is because of rentiers. It's not because we have slightly expensive data plans on our phone. Rentiers are using this to explain away the real problem. This guy is along for the ride for the web-clicks. Go on his site and ask a question that gives the info that he has two rental properties and see if he lets it through moderation. Be polite as you can. He won't. MMM knows where it's at.
  - whyleyc 11y ago
    I'm not sure you can argue MMM is trying to hide his rental situation given that he has published numerous blog posts discussing it in depth starting in 2011: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/23/get-rich-with-owning-rental-houses/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/23/get-rich-with-owni... http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/06/29/good-times-for-landlords/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/06/29/good-times-for-lan...
    - branchless 11y ago
      His whole message of frugality makes zero sense in the wider context of his behaviour. He's giving advice to everyone but if everyone behaved as he did the world would end because we can't have a world where every family derives a significant proportion of it's income from two other families for zero value added.
      - whyleyc 11y ago
        Of course you can't have a world where everyone becomes a landlord, but that doesn't mean this is a completely invalid form of income generation for some people (that's the benefit of being able to take a nuanced view of advice from others). It seems like you are being reductive and misleading in characterising his position - First you argue he won't dare talk about rental income, then when examples emerge of him doing so you say that he is exhorting everyone to do it! MMM talks at length about other sources of income generation too, but let's just ignore those: * Stocks: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/18/how-to-make-money-in-the-stock-market/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/18/how-to-make-money-... * Peer-to-peer lending: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08/26/the-lending-club-experiment-at-one-year-the-gravy-train-grows-crowded/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08/26/the-lending-club-e... * Carpentry: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/27/nicer-legs-and-some-new-carpentry-skills-for-only-15-bucks/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/27/nicer-legs-and-som... As for frugality this may not be a path to financial security for many but it sure is a refreshing departure from the "more, more, more" of modern life.
        11y ago
beambot 11y ago
How does owning rental properties invalidate his message of "avoid rampant, unnecessary consumerism"? Certainly, not everyone can derive their retirement income from rentals (the numbers don't work out). But lucky for you: There are other forms of investment. BTW: I currently rent. It's the financially prudent thing to do in my situation, and I certainly don't begrudge my landlords for it -- they're the ones locked into an illiquid, overvalued asset.
- branchless 11y ago
  Because rampant consumerism isn't the issue. Most families are responsible with their money. Their greatest expense? Rent/mortgage which is pushed up by: 1. bankers issuing insane amounts of debt that out-pace wages 2. speculators borrowing from said banks to "invest" in pushing up living costs for families (ie people like MMM) The media loves to portray people as feckless idiots but the real problem is economic rent extraction by people who are adding zero value to society. That is the rentier - they generate no wealth merely appropriate it.
  - kamaal 11y ago
    >>Because rampant consumerism isn't the issue. Sorry to break the bad news to you, but rampant consumerism actually is the issue. >>Most families are responsible with their money. No, in fact their spending decision don't even remotely reflect any sense of responsibility. >>Their greatest expense? If you think, smaller delta spending doesn't matter. Alas, I'm sorry that's the whole point behind indulging into consumerism without even realizing you are. >>Rent/mortgage which is pushed up by Demands. >>bankers issuing insane amounts of debt that out-pace wages You always have the option to move to the city outskirts, where houses are affordable. It will take more effort to commute and all, but cheap has to count for something. And you could save money to borrow less. >>real problem is economic rent extraction by people who are adding zero value to society. Houses don't get build out of fairies dropping suitcases full of money outside people's houses. They earn it, work for it. And make investments. You are all welcome to invest and grow. But just because you don't want to, it doesn't make others greedy and evil.

OrwellianChild 11y ago

If I may paraphrase: "MMM can teach his kid how to make money on investments in real estate and make profits from renting his owned (financed) assets. He can also teach his kid how to share what he's learned about not over-spending on depreciating assets." Then there's something in there about people who choose to rent being taken advantage of by people who choose to be landlords, but I don't understand it well enough to take your meaning.

branchless 11y ago
Don't paraphrase me, thanks.

ghaff 11y ago

I think you're being a bit unfair. I have no doubt he is pretty frugal. That said, I'm not a huge fan of his schtick but recognize that there are people who probably benefit from the over-the-top exhortations to avoid spending money. A lot of people fritter away a lot on things that they don't need and may not even especially enjoy. Which has been my main takeaway on those occasions when I've skimmed his site. Whatever works.

branchless 11y ago
The frugal stuff is rubbish. He can be frugal because the main outgoing for any family is rent. He's taking in two rents. The rest is just a cheap show. The reason why we are all suffering is because of rentiers. It's not because we have slightly expensive data plans on our phone. Rentiers are using this to explain away the real problem. This guy is along for the ride for the web-clicks. Go on his site and ask a question that gives the info that he has two rental properties and see if he lets it through moderation. Be polite as you can. He won't. MMM knows where it's at.
- whyleyc 11y ago
  I'm not sure you can argue MMM is trying to hide his rental situation given that he has published numerous blog posts discussing it in depth starting in 2011: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/23/get-rich-with-owning-rental-houses/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/23/get-rich-with-owni... http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/06/29/good-times-for-landlords/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/06/29/good-times-for-lan...
  - branchless 11y ago
    His whole message of frugality makes zero sense in the wider context of his behaviour. He's giving advice to everyone but if everyone behaved as he did the world would end because we can't have a world where every family derives a significant proportion of it's income from two other families for zero value added.
    - whyleyc 11y ago
      Of course you can't have a world where everyone becomes a landlord, but that doesn't mean this is a completely invalid form of income generation for some people (that's the benefit of being able to take a nuanced view of advice from others). It seems like you are being reductive and misleading in characterising his position - First you argue he won't dare talk about rental income, then when examples emerge of him doing so you say that he is exhorting everyone to do it! MMM talks at length about other sources of income generation too, but let's just ignore those: * Stocks: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/18/how-to-make-money-in-the-stock-market/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/18/how-to-make-money-... * Peer-to-peer lending: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08/26/the-lending-club-experiment-at-one-year-the-gravy-train-grows-crowded/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08/26/the-lending-club-e... * Carpentry: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/27/nicer-legs-and-some-new-carpentry-skills-for-only-15-bucks/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/27/nicer-legs-and-som... As for frugality this may not be a path to financial security for many but it sure is a refreshing departure from the "more, more, more" of modern life.
      - 11y ago

beambot 11y ago

How does owning rental properties invalidate his message of "avoid rampant, unnecessary consumerism"? Certainly, not everyone can derive their retirement income from rentals (the numbers don't work out). But lucky for you: There are other forms of investment. BTW: I currently rent. It's the financially prudent thing to do in my situation, and I certainly don't begrudge my landlords for it -- they're the ones locked into an illiquid, overvalued asset.

branchless 11y ago
Because rampant consumerism isn't the issue. Most families are responsible with their money. Their greatest expense? Rent/mortgage which is pushed up by: 1. bankers issuing insane amounts of debt that out-pace wages 2. speculators borrowing from said banks to "invest" in pushing up living costs for families (ie people like MMM) The media loves to portray people as feckless idiots but the real problem is economic rent extraction by people who are adding zero value to society. That is the rentier - they generate no wealth merely appropriate it.
- kamaal 11y ago
  >>Because rampant consumerism isn't the issue. Sorry to break the bad news to you, but rampant consumerism actually is the issue. >>Most families are responsible with their money. No, in fact their spending decision don't even remotely reflect any sense of responsibility. >>Their greatest expense? If you think, smaller delta spending doesn't matter. Alas, I'm sorry that's the whole point behind indulging into consumerism without even realizing you are. >>Rent/mortgage which is pushed up by Demands. >>bankers issuing insane amounts of debt that out-pace wages You always have the option to move to the city outskirts, where houses are affordable. It will take more effort to commute and all, but cheap has to count for something. And you could save money to borrow less. >>real problem is economic rent extraction by people who are adding zero value to society. Houses don't get build out of fairies dropping suitcases full of money outside people's houses. They earn it, work for it. And make investments. You are all welcome to invest and grow. But just because you don't want to, it doesn't make others greedy and evil.