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No way could it be just a couple of software engineers. The engine is a system, and its the engine that has to pass the emissions tests. So that means the whole
by PaulAJ 11y ago
No way could it be just a couple of software engineers. The engine is a system, and its the engine that has to pass the emissions tests. So that means the whole engine development team had to be in on it, including their technical management. They in turn would not have done such a thing if they had not believed that senior management wanted it, and it is the responsibility of senior management to make it clear what they want.
- johansch 11y agoWhen this CEO of a company with 600k employees says "it's some software engineers", I assume he might actually be honestly referring to what we would call engineering managers, perhaps with hundreds of indirect reports, 2-3 levels down from the CEO. I find this plausible... (Particularly since these hearings seem designed to score political points rather than to find out what actually happened.)
- jsprogrammer 11y agoHowever plausible it may be, it is still not excusable. The company should have processes in place that can verify the claims it makes. Plausible deniability is really just a claim of neglect. Edit: I'm being rate-limited, so I'll respond to the points below right here: >What processes should be in place, exactly, to do what? How about driving a vehicle in the manner most of their customer's do and examining the emissions? >Quarterly polygraph tests performed by all engineering managers How would that help exactly? Polygraph is demonstrably unreliable. >to assure top management they haven't broken any laws? It's mostly irrelevant how assured top management is about anything. What matters, in this case, is how far out of spec the vehicles Volkswagon produced are. That is what needed to be verified: specs vs. facts.
- johansch 11y agoWhat do you mean? Let's assume the individial he is talking about is a manager of a group of hundreds of engineers working in this area. This means this guy's direct manager most likely would not be in a position to inspect the work of people 2-3 levels down for any irregularities. What processes should be in place, exactly, to do what? Quarterly polygraph tests performed by all engineering managers to assure top management they haven't broken any laws?
- Retric 11y agoFor something like this an open door policy where someone can send issues up the chain would have work over the 6+ years this policy was in place.
- s73v3r 11y agoAt the end of the day, that manager is still responsible for everything that happens under them. That's the justification for giving them the big paychecks, isn't it?
- johansch 11y agoI thought the justification for their big paychecks was the value they brought.
- sheepmullet 11y ago> What do you mean? All you need are strong whistleblowing protections and mandatory independent investigation of any claims made. Do you really think of the dozens of people who had to be aware of it none of them would have thought "this is really dodgy" and wanted to push it up the chain?
- jonknee 11y agoThe (now resigned) CEO prided himself on being an engineer and in depth knowledge. I don't believe he didn't know how VW was able to market clean diesel engines in the US without having a clean diesel emission system for them. His big thing was to be the largest car maker and he needed to juice US sales to get there. He had to have spent a lot of time on US strategy. The shitty part is that he succeeded--they became #1 (this year!) and he has a huge pension to retire on.
- johansch 11y agohttp://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/content/en/the_group/senior_management/winterkorn.html http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/content/en/the_gr... "Winterkorn’s professional career began in 1977 as a specialist assistant in the research division "Process Engineering" at Robert Bosch GmbH. From 1978 to 1981 he headed the refrigerant compressor development group "Substances and Processes" at Robert Bosch GmbH and Bosch-Siemens-Hausgeräte GmbH. In 1981 Winterkorn joined AUDI AG as assistant to the Member of the Board for Quality Assurance. Two years later, he assumed responsibility for "Measuring Technology/Sampling and Test Laboratory" at Audi. At the beginning of 1988, he was made departmental head of "Central Quality Assurance", and in 1990 Head of Audi Quality Assurance. In 1993 Winterkorn became Head of "Group Quality Assurance" at Volkswagen AG and was appointed General Representative of Volkswagen AG in March 1994." These would be his formative years. It seems he focused on processes and quality rather than actual technology, IMO.
- jessaustin 11y agoMy impression is that manufacturing technology is still technology, and manufacturing engineers are still engineers.
- zardo 11y agoAbsolutely, you don't precisely robotically assemble millions of vehicles without a little engineering and technology getting involved.
- jonknee 11y ago
- selimthegrim 11y agoHe's the CEO of the American branch not VAG
- johansch 11y agoMy mistake. Still, my argument persists.