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The justification is that the new page moves too fast. We like to think that merit matters, but it's random and arbitrary whether or not something moves off of
by rms 17y ago
The justification is that the new page moves too fast. We like to think that merit matters, but it's random and arbitrary whether or not something moves off of the new page with that initial vote or two.
I openly admit to having previously colluded with nickb to do this for an occasional story. Just a few submissions in my years here. There is no front page sculpting among the top users here like on Digg. Edw and I actually talked about this in a mixergy interview we did with Andrew Warner.
Still, if there is something I really, really want to give a chance at getting on the front page, I will not feel bad about making sure it gets 2 or 3 points in the first couple minutes. 4 points would be too many. If it doesn't get any more upvotes, it will fall away quickly.
Since nickb and I upvoted stories that we felt were on-topic and deserving of being on the front page, where is the moral problem? And, if it is decided this is bad, how can it be stopped? Should you really only be able to upvote a friend's story if you innocently see it on the new page? Most people don't browse the new page, giving a small minority of users the power to choose what is seen by everyone else.
The supposed democracy of the new page is not something wonderful with this naive integrity we must maintain. It's a flawed system we have to work with. Asking friends to vote for your stories is a slippery slope, but when they are stories they would have upvoted anyways, there is no moral dilemna. It's a long slope from nickb and I colluding once every 6 months and people paying me hundreds of dollars to put their acai berry affiliate marketing site on the front page.
- jacquesm 17y agoTiming is everyhing, and apparently on HN by being able to influence the timing of the first few votes you get a very large amount of control over what makes it and what does not. The end result is that those that play by the rules don't stand a chance versus those that cheat, just like on digg.
- rms 17y agoI agree with the general sentiment, though not the absolutism. We're a long way from the unfairness of Digg. I think this is the last statement from pg on the matter: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=196783 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=196783 Friend upvoting is not recommended, but isn't outright banned. I'm not sure that there can be a self-consistent guideline that bans asking friends for upvotes. We can certainly discourage it though.
- jacquesm 17y agoHow will you tell the difference between asking 4 or 5 of your buddies to upvote you categorically versus simply using 4 or 5 socketpuppets? What if we all started doing this? Then the homepage would look like the new page within a week.