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Of course we should not, by and large, blame the individual officers, sans those who have clearly overstepped boundaries. This should not in any way distract fr

Of course we should not, by and large, blame the individual officers, sans those who have clearly overstepped boundaries. This should not in any way distract from the point that police forces in the U.S. (and many other jurisdictions) serve as paramilitary organizations which, as set by common law precedent, have no obligation to protect anyone, but only enforce a legal framework on a macro scale, i.e. their only duty is to serve the state (see: Castle Rock v. Gonzales). It's interesting you mention "gun nuttery" as a problem. I take it you approve the citizenry be asymmetrical w.r.t being armed relative to the police? I do not. By all means, fuck the police. Why would I approve of, say, the LAPD any more than I would approve of the MVSN?

AnimalMuppet 11y ago
> Why would I approve of, say, the LAPD any more than I would approve of the MVSN? I had to look up MVSN. They were the Italian Fascist Blackshirt thugs. If you think life in LA would be improved by the absence of the LAPD, I strongly question your grasp on reality. If you think the LAPD hassles people they shouldn't, beats them up, and sometimes kills them, you're almost certainly correct. But if you think that, in the absence of the LAPD, the total number of beatings and killings would go down, you're dreaming.
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  I made no such claim. I was disputing the GP's assertion that police aren't broken.
  - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
    First: I agree that the police are, in too many ways, broken. But you said, "Why would I approve of, say, the LAPD any more than I would approve of the MVSN?" My reply is that you would approve of the LAPD and not the MVSN, because despite the brokenness, the LAPD is still a net positive, and the MVSN were not.
    - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
      Actually your comment didn't state they were a net positive, but merely that their absence wouldn't translate to a decrease in crime rates. It may well be that some paramilitaries are more efficient than others, but their incentives are by definition always stacked against community building, and in favor of adversarial enforcement.

AnimalMuppet 11y ago

> Why would I approve of, say, the LAPD any more than I would approve of the MVSN? I had to look up MVSN. They were the Italian Fascist Blackshirt thugs. If you think life in LA would be improved by the absence of the LAPD, I strongly question your grasp on reality. If you think the LAPD hassles people they shouldn't, beats them up, and sometimes kills them, you're almost certainly correct. But if you think that, in the absence of the LAPD, the total number of beatings and killings would go down, you're dreaming.

vezzy-fnord 11y ago
I made no such claim. I was disputing the GP's assertion that police aren't broken.
- AnimalMuppet 11y ago
  First: I agree that the police are, in too many ways, broken. But you said, "Why would I approve of, say, the LAPD any more than I would approve of the MVSN?" My reply is that you would approve of the LAPD and not the MVSN, because despite the brokenness, the LAPD is still a net positive, and the MVSN were not.
  - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
    Actually your comment didn't state they were a net positive, but merely that their absence wouldn't translate to a decrease in crime rates. It may well be that some paramilitaries are more efficient than others, but their incentives are by definition always stacked against community building, and in favor of adversarial enforcement.