3 ms·

I'd really like to get one of these as my next laptop/mobile computing device. However, with the Surface Pro 4 (and all previous iterations), it seems impossib

by nilkn 11y ago

I'd really like to get one of these as my next laptop/mobile computing device. However, with the Surface Pro 4 (and all previous iterations), it seems impossible to actually use on your lap. Granted, I haven't had an opportunity to try it, but the kickstand and attachable keyboard seem like they only work on an actual desk. I very rarely use my current laptop, a MacBook Air, on an actual desk. The Surface Book easily solves that problem, but I've seen reports that the battery life is only about ~3 hours with the screen detached as a tablet. That's low enough to make me question the purchase. I've had to wait at an airport for over 3 hours before, and that means that my tablet would have went from 100% to 0% battery before even getting on the plane. Granted, the keyboard base has more batteries built into it, so the device would not be unusable in this scenario, but it would not be usable in its ideal form factor. (This article, for what it's worth, claims 4 hours for the tablet and 8 hours for the bottom -- slightly more generous numbers.) Edit/update: I forgot when writing this that the Surface Book's screen can be attached to the base backwards with the base folded back, thus getting the full ~12 hour battery life (plus the discrete GPU) at the cost of some extra bulk. Depending on just how bulky it is, that just might solve the problem for me.

yread 11y ago
Check out the pictures in the article. Especially this one http://rack.2.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE1LzEwLzA3L2U5L01pY3Jvc29mdF9NLmVlNTBlLmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/892f624c/d32/Microsoft_Meeting-3.jpg http://rack.2.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE1LzEwLzA3L2U5L01pY3Jvc... it has 3 people using Surface on their (gasp) lap!
- nilkn 11y ago
  It doesn't look very comfortable to me. I don't want to feel like I'm balancing the kickstand on my legs. And what if I'm laying down? The only way I'll know for sure I suppose is to actually try it.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  I have the SP2 and it's almost impossible to use on your lap as a laptop it doesn't stay put. The keyboard is not hard enough to type on comfortably and there aren't enough points of contact to prevent the damn thing from constantly sliding and tipping over. The SP3 might be a bit better, the keyboard is supposed to be considerably better but as far as the SP2 goes the best way i found to actually use it on your lap is to lay it pretty much flat, using the kick stand never worked for me.
  - Armisael16 11y ago
    The SP3's continuous kickstand makes it a lot easier to use it in your lap. I upgraded from an SP1 to an SP3 (it hit a tile floor corner first), and while I know exactly what you're talking about, I don't think it's an issue anymore.
    - dogma1138 11y ago
      Could be, the biggest issue I have isn't with the angle of the kickstand (although if you don't sit a manner that allows you to have your thighs perfectly horizontal the SP2's angles are a huge limitations as there isn't an angle in which it won't want to tip over forward or backwards). My biggest issue with the kickstand and I can't believe I'm using that word is the thigh gap... since there isn't a base and the keyboard isn't stiff enough to provide one the moment you move your your legs a bit either further apart or up / down the kickstand tilts and the surface slides down. For me using the surface as a laptop pretty much means for me that i have to remain still and close my legs so much that I feel like I'm crushing my private parts, It could be just me but i got quite long legs and and if I keep the Surface closer to me i just can't type on it or see the screen without hunching over or breaking my neck.
- Adaptive 11y ago
  I own an SP3 and ran Arch Linux on it for many months of constant roaming use, sitting, at tables, in bed, etc. I do own the detachable keyboard. I can say from extensive experience that it is very awkward to use on your lap compared to a true laptop. The problem is that the center of gravity is under the screen/kickstand, not the base. The new book looks like a much better option in that regard.
dworin 11y ago
I use my Surface Pro 3 on my lap a fair amount. It's not the best, but it's functional if I'm in a seat at the airport, or a hotel lobby, or on the couch. I've also realized that a lot of the work that I do in those situations involves more reading than intensive typing, and I'll just switch to using it as a tablet. I would say that "lapability" comes up with about the same frequency that "I need to use my laptop while standing and it's a pain" and "this laptop is getting really hot on my lap" have happened with previous laptops I've owned.
masklinn 11y ago
> The Surface Book easily solves that problem, but I've seen reports that the battery life is only about ~3 hours with the screen detached as a tablet. Which is why MS presents it as a "clipboard mode", and later descriptions indicated that the expectation and intended use was 80% "laptop". The Surface Book is a laptop first and foremost. > it would not be usable in its ideal form factor. Clipboard mode is not the ideal form factor of the surface book. If you do not like the Surface Pro's kickstand, you may be more interested in the iPad Pro whose keyboard stand seems stabler and "full surface".
- nilkn 11y ago
  > Clipboard mode is not the ideal form factor of the surface book. You misunderstood, or I wasn't clear enough. It's the ideal form factor for me when waiting in an airport.
  - masklinn 11y ago
    Then you're looking for a tablet with an optional keyboard. If the Surface Pro seems dodgy wrt support the iPad Pro may be a better fit, the keyboard seems to provide more support than the Surface Pro's kickstand: http://cdn.maypalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/iPad-Pro-keyboard.png http://cdn.maypalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/iPad-Pro-k... (I don't know how flexible it is with respect to viewing angles though)
    - scholia 11y ago
      However, the iPad Pro runs smartphone/tablet level software, whereas the Surface Pro runs full-strength desktop software. It depends what you need, of course, but they're not interchangeable for most pro users....
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - pavelrub 11y ago
    Why can't you use it with the screen reversed like [1]? [1] - http://www.windowscentral.com/sites/wpcentral.com/files/styles/larger_wm_brb/public/field/image/2015/10/surface-book-pen.jpg?itok=UgMijtzC http://www.windowscentral.com/sites/wpcentral.com/files/styl...
amyjess 11y ago
> However, with the Surface Pro 4 (and all previous iterations), it seems impossible to actually use on your lap. Granted, I haven't had an opportunity to try it, but the kickstand and attachable keyboard seem like they only work on an actual desk. I own an SP3. It's definitely possible to use it in your lap, but I don't know if I'd call it comfortable. It's really finicky: you have to set it up just right for it to be lappable. You have to get the kickstand in the right position (SP3/SP4 have a huge advantage over the SP1/SP2 here), you have to put it on the right part of your lap, you have to put the keyboard in angled mode (which, on your lap, makes it much easier to type but harder to hit the touchpad, so you'll end up relying on the screen for pointing), etc.
anjc 11y ago
I've found that moving the kickstand to suit my position has become second nature. And although this does mean having to move the kickstand every now and then, you have a benefit over a laptop in that the screen wont budge a millimetre as you're using it, which is a benefit I wasn't expecting and makes reading/watching more pleasant.

by nilkn 11y ago

yread 11y ago

Check out the pictures in the article. Especially this one http://rack.2.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE1LzEwLzA3L2U5L01pY3Jvc29mdF9NLmVlNTBlLmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/892f624c/d32/Microsoft_Meeting-3.jpg http://rack.2.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE1LzEwLzA3L2U5L01pY3Jvc... it has 3 people using Surface on their (gasp) lap!

nilkn 11y ago
It doesn't look very comfortable to me. I don't want to feel like I'm balancing the kickstand on my legs. And what if I'm laying down? The only way I'll know for sure I suppose is to actually try it.
dogma1138 11y ago
I have the SP2 and it's almost impossible to use on your lap as a laptop it doesn't stay put. The keyboard is not hard enough to type on comfortably and there aren't enough points of contact to prevent the damn thing from constantly sliding and tipping over. The SP3 might be a bit better, the keyboard is supposed to be considerably better but as far as the SP2 goes the best way i found to actually use it on your lap is to lay it pretty much flat, using the kick stand never worked for me.
- Armisael16 11y ago
  The SP3's continuous kickstand makes it a lot easier to use it in your lap. I upgraded from an SP1 to an SP3 (it hit a tile floor corner first), and while I know exactly what you're talking about, I don't think it's an issue anymore.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    Could be, the biggest issue I have isn't with the angle of the kickstand (although if you don't sit a manner that allows you to have your thighs perfectly horizontal the SP2's angles are a huge limitations as there isn't an angle in which it won't want to tip over forward or backwards). My biggest issue with the kickstand and I can't believe I'm using that word is the thigh gap... since there isn't a base and the keyboard isn't stiff enough to provide one the moment you move your your legs a bit either further apart or up / down the kickstand tilts and the surface slides down. For me using the surface as a laptop pretty much means for me that i have to remain still and close my legs so much that I feel like I'm crushing my private parts, It could be just me but i got quite long legs and and if I keep the Surface closer to me i just can't type on it or see the screen without hunching over or breaking my neck.
Adaptive 11y ago
I own an SP3 and ran Arch Linux on it for many months of constant roaming use, sitting, at tables, in bed, etc. I do own the detachable keyboard. I can say from extensive experience that it is very awkward to use on your lap compared to a true laptop. The problem is that the center of gravity is under the screen/kickstand, not the base. The new book looks like a much better option in that regard.

dworin 11y ago

I use my Surface Pro 3 on my lap a fair amount. It's not the best, but it's functional if I'm in a seat at the airport, or a hotel lobby, or on the couch. I've also realized that a lot of the work that I do in those situations involves more reading than intensive typing, and I'll just switch to using it as a tablet. I would say that "lapability" comes up with about the same frequency that "I need to use my laptop while standing and it's a pain" and "this laptop is getting really hot on my lap" have happened with previous laptops I've owned.

masklinn 11y ago

> The Surface Book easily solves that problem, but I've seen reports that the battery life is only about ~3 hours with the screen detached as a tablet. Which is why MS presents it as a "clipboard mode", and later descriptions indicated that the expectation and intended use was 80% "laptop". The Surface Book is a laptop first and foremost. > it would not be usable in its ideal form factor. Clipboard mode is not the ideal form factor of the surface book. If you do not like the Surface Pro's kickstand, you may be more interested in the iPad Pro whose keyboard stand seems stabler and "full surface".

nilkn 11y ago
> Clipboard mode is not the ideal form factor of the surface book. You misunderstood, or I wasn't clear enough. It's the ideal form factor for me when waiting in an airport.
- masklinn 11y ago
  Then you're looking for a tablet with an optional keyboard. If the Surface Pro seems dodgy wrt support the iPad Pro may be a better fit, the keyboard seems to provide more support than the Surface Pro's kickstand: http://cdn.maypalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/iPad-Pro-keyboard.png http://cdn.maypalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/iPad-Pro-k... (I don't know how flexible it is with respect to viewing angles though)
  - scholia 11y ago
    However, the iPad Pro runs smartphone/tablet level software, whereas the Surface Pro runs full-strength desktop software. It depends what you need, of course, but they're not interchangeable for most pro users....
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- pavelrub 11y ago
  Why can't you use it with the screen reversed like [1]? [1] - http://www.windowscentral.com/sites/wpcentral.com/files/styles/larger_wm_brb/public/field/image/2015/10/surface-book-pen.jpg?itok=UgMijtzC http://www.windowscentral.com/sites/wpcentral.com/files/styl...

amyjess 11y ago

> However, with the Surface Pro 4 (and all previous iterations), it seems impossible to actually use on your lap. Granted, I haven't had an opportunity to try it, but the kickstand and attachable keyboard seem like they only work on an actual desk. I own an SP3. It's definitely possible to use it in your lap, but I don't know if I'd call it comfortable. It's really finicky: you have to set it up just right for it to be lappable. You have to get the kickstand in the right position (SP3/SP4 have a huge advantage over the SP1/SP2 here), you have to put it on the right part of your lap, you have to put the keyboard in angled mode (which, on your lap, makes it much easier to type but harder to hit the touchpad, so you'll end up relying on the screen for pointing), etc.

anjc 11y ago

I've found that moving the kickstand to suit my position has become second nature. And although this does mean having to move the kickstand every now and then, you have a benefit over a laptop in that the screen wont budge a millimetre as you're using it, which is a benefit I wasn't expecting and makes reading/watching more pleasant.