6 ms·

To cool down some of the optimism in this comment section: Microsoft is still accepting cash for practically every Android phone made because of their patent th

To cool down some of the optimism in this comment section: Microsoft is still accepting cash for practically every Android phone made because of their patent threats, or did they change their ways in this regard as well? (I am genuinely curious whether this continues; I tried to google "microsoft android patent threats" but found only news articles from 2013/2014 about the practice.)

sz4kerto 11y ago
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/google-and-microsoft-end-all-patent-litigation/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/google-and-micros... "Microsoft and Google are pleased to announce an agreement on patent issues. As part of the agreement, the companies will dismiss all pending patent infringement litigation between them, including cases related to Motorola Mobility. "
- simula67 11y ago
  That article very specifically says that we still do not know whether Microsoft stopped the practice.
- avar 11y ago
  Those are just lawsuits between the two, wasn't the nature of the royalties for Android devices that they contacted OEMs and said "we have these patents, you better pay us or we'll sue you", and the OEMs paid up? That's different than cancelling outstanding lawsuits.
  - pmelendez 11y ago
    From the announcement: "Separately, Google and Microsoft have agreed to collaborate on certain patent matters and anticipate working together in other areas in the future to benefit our customers." Last time I heard that was with Apple and was more like "I won't sue you for this and you won't sue me for that"
  - LLWM 11y ago
    That's how patent licensing works (albeit a comically overaggressive caricature). Do you fundamentally oppose the concept of patents or do you think Microsoft is doing something else wrong by asking to be paid license fees by competitors using their patents?
    - avar 11y ago
      I don't hold either of those views. I was just pointing out that the parent comment by sz4kerto seems to not be relevant to the question asked by NotOscarWilde.
- acqq 11y ago
  Microsoft can still get money from Samsung, as Google produces much less phones and Samsung a lot of them, and simply using Android doesn't mean that Samsung doesn't have to pay for the patents.
math 11y ago
On this, I get a lot more upset with those setting the rules than those playing the game.
- jessaustin 11y ago
  As this TPP thing reminds us yet again, those are the same people.
mtgx 11y ago
> did they change their ways in this regard as well? Oh, they absolutely did. Now they also threaten companies with lawsuits unless they install their own apps on Android devices [1]. I didn't say it was for the better. How this doesn't immediately alarm the anti-trust bodies for using patents to force companies to buy its products is still a puzzle to me. Microsoft loves the rigged patent game and it's exploiting every minute of it, while fighting hard to ensure it stays this way [2] and also doing its best to make the copyright system worse, as well [3]. [1] http://www.pcworld.com/article/2988525/android/microsoft-strikes-a-deal-with-asus-we-wont-sue-if-you-put-office-on-your-android-devices.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2988525/android/microsoft-str... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/11/20/software-patent-reform-just-died-in-the-house-thanks-to-ibm-and-microsoft/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/11/20... [3] http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613305/patents/microsoft--emc--netapp-join-oracle-s-legal-fight-against-google-on-java.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613305/patents/microsoft--...
craigvn 11y ago
While this is true similar practices around patents and technology is undertaken by every large tech company. Why do you think Google are so interested in self driving cars? Not because they want to be the next Toyota but because they want to own all technology and patents behind it which they will happily let Toyota use for a small (ok very large) fee.
- petra 11y ago
  Actually , i do think Google wants to be either the next toyota or UBER. Just licensing patents is leaving huge amounts of money on the table.
  - jdmichal 11y ago
    It's leaving a huge amount of money on the table generated by activities unrelated to Google's expertise, such as producing the actual car. Google does a lot of things, but I'm pretty sure running a car factory is not one of their fields of expertise.
cwyers 11y ago
I don't exactly understand the objection to this. Microsoft has the patents (and they don't seem to be spurious patents). Google used techniques covered by the patents in Android without paying Microsoft or indemnifying their OEMs. Microsoft is actively competing with Android. They should let the Android OEMs by because... why? Even assuming for a moment that patents are inherently wrong (rather than our current patent system being flawed in execution) and that Microsoft believes it to be wrong... it exists. They gain nothing by unilaterally disarming. Why should they let the Android OEMs use these patents for free?
- throwawaykf05 11y ago
  And the reason they have these patents are because, contrary to the article, they were doing smartphones long before Apple or Google came to the table. MS was actually one of the bigger smartphone players at the time. Sure, these were not the "modern" touchscreen smartphones that Apple popularized, but MS developed a bunch of technologies that, behind the revolutionized UI, are used by modern smartphones to this day.
- throwaway2048 11y ago
  The act of never leaving a cent on the table is what i find loathesome about a ton of companies.
  - cwyers 11y ago
    I can make a case for leaving money on the table for your customers, or your employees, or for some greater social good. I'm not seeing a case for leaving money on the table for your direct competitor in the abstract, though.
WorldWideWayne 11y ago
Do you use any Apple products whatsoever? I hope not, because Apple sues over patents too. If you really care, please stop using any company's products that do this.

sz4kerto 11y ago

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/google-and-microsoft-end-all-patent-litigation/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/google-and-micros... "Microsoft and Google are pleased to announce an agreement on patent issues. As part of the agreement, the companies will dismiss all pending patent infringement litigation between them, including cases related to Motorola Mobility. "

simula67 11y ago
That article very specifically says that we still do not know whether Microsoft stopped the practice.
avar 11y ago
Those are just lawsuits between the two, wasn't the nature of the royalties for Android devices that they contacted OEMs and said "we have these patents, you better pay us or we'll sue you", and the OEMs paid up? That's different than cancelling outstanding lawsuits.
- pmelendez 11y ago
  From the announcement: "Separately, Google and Microsoft have agreed to collaborate on certain patent matters and anticipate working together in other areas in the future to benefit our customers." Last time I heard that was with Apple and was more like "I won't sue you for this and you won't sue me for that"
- LLWM 11y ago
  That's how patent licensing works (albeit a comically overaggressive caricature). Do you fundamentally oppose the concept of patents or do you think Microsoft is doing something else wrong by asking to be paid license fees by competitors using their patents?
  - avar 11y ago
    I don't hold either of those views. I was just pointing out that the parent comment by sz4kerto seems to not be relevant to the question asked by NotOscarWilde.
acqq 11y ago
Microsoft can still get money from Samsung, as Google produces much less phones and Samsung a lot of them, and simply using Android doesn't mean that Samsung doesn't have to pay for the patents.

math 11y ago

On this, I get a lot more upset with those setting the rules than those playing the game.

jessaustin 11y ago
As this TPP thing reminds us yet again, those are the same people.

mtgx 11y ago

> did they change their ways in this regard as well? Oh, they absolutely did. Now they also threaten companies with lawsuits unless they install their own apps on Android devices [1]. I didn't say it was for the better. How this doesn't immediately alarm the anti-trust bodies for using patents to force companies to buy its products is still a puzzle to me. Microsoft loves the rigged patent game and it's exploiting every minute of it, while fighting hard to ensure it stays this way [2] and also doing its best to make the copyright system worse, as well [3]. [1] http://www.pcworld.com/article/2988525/android/microsoft-strikes-a-deal-with-asus-we-wont-sue-if-you-put-office-on-your-android-devices.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2988525/android/microsoft-str... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/11/20/software-patent-reform-just-died-in-the-house-thanks-to-ibm-and-microsoft/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/11/20... [3] http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613305/patents/microsoft--emc--netapp-join-oracle-s-legal-fight-against-google-on-java.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613305/patents/microsoft--...

craigvn 11y ago

While this is true similar practices around patents and technology is undertaken by every large tech company. Why do you think Google are so interested in self driving cars? Not because they want to be the next Toyota but because they want to own all technology and patents behind it which they will happily let Toyota use for a small (ok very large) fee.

petra 11y ago
Actually , i do think Google wants to be either the next toyota or UBER. Just licensing patents is leaving huge amounts of money on the table.
- jdmichal 11y ago
  It's leaving a huge amount of money on the table generated by activities unrelated to Google's expertise, such as producing the actual car. Google does a lot of things, but I'm pretty sure running a car factory is not one of their fields of expertise.

cwyers 11y ago

I don't exactly understand the objection to this. Microsoft has the patents (and they don't seem to be spurious patents). Google used techniques covered by the patents in Android without paying Microsoft or indemnifying their OEMs. Microsoft is actively competing with Android. They should let the Android OEMs by because... why? Even assuming for a moment that patents are inherently wrong (rather than our current patent system being flawed in execution) and that Microsoft believes it to be wrong... it exists. They gain nothing by unilaterally disarming. Why should they let the Android OEMs use these patents for free?

throwawaykf05 11y ago
And the reason they have these patents are because, contrary to the article, they were doing smartphones long before Apple or Google came to the table. MS was actually one of the bigger smartphone players at the time. Sure, these were not the "modern" touchscreen smartphones that Apple popularized, but MS developed a bunch of technologies that, behind the revolutionized UI, are used by modern smartphones to this day.
throwaway2048 11y ago
The act of never leaving a cent on the table is what i find loathesome about a ton of companies.
- cwyers 11y ago
  I can make a case for leaving money on the table for your customers, or your employees, or for some greater social good. I'm not seeing a case for leaving money on the table for your direct competitor in the abstract, though.

WorldWideWayne 11y ago

Do you use any Apple products whatsoever? I hope not, because Apple sues over patents too. If you really care, please stop using any company's products that do this.