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I think you're underestimating how long it takes to set up workflows, tools, device drivers, system configurations, path variables, and so forth from scratch. I

by asteli 11y ago

I think you're underestimating how long it takes to set up workflows, tools, device drivers, system configurations, path variables, and so forth from scratch. If you rely solely on project repositories, I reckon you could spend multiple man-days getting your machine back to a pre-dataloss state. I just had a laptop stolen. Even with Time Machine backups, you still spend many hours setting configs after a restore.

ghaff 11y ago
I've found things easier than that with Time Machine, but in any case, I agree with your basic point. (Time Machine has the added bonus of turning the setup of a new system into something that takes a couple hours rather than a couple days--at least unless you want to take the opportunity to start clean.) Should you have additional on-site and off-site/cloud backups? Sure. I also use Backblaze as well as having a periodic on-site data files backup. (Plus whatever incidental backup is provided by Flickr and iCloud.) But, from my perspectivem it doesn't hurt to start with a whole disk backup, especially given how easy Time Machine makes it.
togusa 11y ago
When I had a Mac I used Carbon Copy Cloner to image the disks solving that entire problem. It creates bootable backups then which you can restore to exactly the original state. Time machine was a veritable pain in my arse on numerous occasions including one that nearly shafted everything I had. I genuinely don't trust it or HFS+ and never would ever again. TBH I've moved to Windows as a primary platform now and I'm just using Beyond Compare to sync my data by hand to bitlocker encrypted USB sticks (3x 128Gb Corsair Survivor) and keep one on my keyring, one in the car and one at home. Takes about 2 hours to build a windows machine from scratch now including OS, Office, dev tools, updates onto an SSD. I imagine that would work reasonably well on a Mac too if you skipped half the junk that appeared in the user's profile.
bradleyland 11y ago
> Even with Time Machine backups, you still spend many hours setting configs after a restore. But how many hours do you spend establishing, testing, and maintaining a backup plan that mitigates the risk of spending a few hours getting back to working status after a restore? In my experience, TimeMachine is wonderfully effective at restoring system state (including things like shell customizations, dotfiles, etc). The marginal return on investment in more comprehensive backup setup just doesn't pay dividends. Of course, there's the issue of offsite backups, which typically aren't as comprehensive as TimeMachine. The point I'm making is that technical folks often have a hard time making value judgements as it relates to technology. Having a backup of your data is 100% necessary. No argument there. Having a backup of your system state? That's not as high a priority, because you're mitigating a future time investment with a current time investment. You have to weigh the two against each other: time spent today versus potentially time spent in the future.
vinceguidry 11y ago
It's something you pick up over time with experience. I've switched computers so many times over the last 20 years or so, I don't sweat a sudden loss. Happened just last year, dumped coffee all over my MacBook Pro, had a brand new MacBook Air the next day, didn't bother moving anything over except for one file I was working on that I hadn't yet synced up. I was back up and running within a couple of hours. There's this process that runs in my head whenever I work on my laptop. (as opposed to working on a coding project) I always keep in mind what the dependencies are, what it would take to replicate this if I lost it.
yo-code-sucks 11y ago
It takes me less than 10 minutes to wipe and install Linux, and to restore all my projects, environments, etc. you're doing it wrong.
lfowles 11y ago
I've started using tools that have sane default workflows. Learn to live with the defaults I guess :) Then the hurdle is just getting programs installed. Which I'd prefer to do clean slate instead of from a backup to get rid of cruft.

by asteli 11y ago

ghaff 11y ago

I've found things easier than that with Time Machine, but in any case, I agree with your basic point. (Time Machine has the added bonus of turning the setup of a new system into something that takes a couple hours rather than a couple days--at least unless you want to take the opportunity to start clean.) Should you have additional on-site and off-site/cloud backups? Sure. I also use Backblaze as well as having a periodic on-site data files backup. (Plus whatever incidental backup is provided by Flickr and iCloud.) But, from my perspectivem it doesn't hurt to start with a whole disk backup, especially given how easy Time Machine makes it.

togusa 11y ago

When I had a Mac I used Carbon Copy Cloner to image the disks solving that entire problem. It creates bootable backups then which you can restore to exactly the original state. Time machine was a veritable pain in my arse on numerous occasions including one that nearly shafted everything I had. I genuinely don't trust it or HFS+ and never would ever again. TBH I've moved to Windows as a primary platform now and I'm just using Beyond Compare to sync my data by hand to bitlocker encrypted USB sticks (3x 128Gb Corsair Survivor) and keep one on my keyring, one in the car and one at home. Takes about 2 hours to build a windows machine from scratch now including OS, Office, dev tools, updates onto an SSD. I imagine that would work reasonably well on a Mac too if you skipped half the junk that appeared in the user's profile.

bradleyland 11y ago

> Even with Time Machine backups, you still spend many hours setting configs after a restore. But how many hours do you spend establishing, testing, and maintaining a backup plan that mitigates the risk of spending a few hours getting back to working status after a restore? In my experience, TimeMachine is wonderfully effective at restoring system state (including things like shell customizations, dotfiles, etc). The marginal return on investment in more comprehensive backup setup just doesn't pay dividends. Of course, there's the issue of offsite backups, which typically aren't as comprehensive as TimeMachine. The point I'm making is that technical folks often have a hard time making value judgements as it relates to technology. Having a backup of your data is 100% necessary. No argument there. Having a backup of your system state? That's not as high a priority, because you're mitigating a future time investment with a current time investment. You have to weigh the two against each other: time spent today versus potentially time spent in the future.

vinceguidry 11y ago

It's something you pick up over time with experience. I've switched computers so many times over the last 20 years or so, I don't sweat a sudden loss. Happened just last year, dumped coffee all over my MacBook Pro, had a brand new MacBook Air the next day, didn't bother moving anything over except for one file I was working on that I hadn't yet synced up. I was back up and running within a couple of hours. There's this process that runs in my head whenever I work on my laptop. (as opposed to working on a coding project) I always keep in mind what the dependencies are, what it would take to replicate this if I lost it.

yo-code-sucks 11y ago

It takes me less than 10 minutes to wipe and install Linux, and to restore all my projects, environments, etc. you're doing it wrong.

lfowles 11y ago

I've started using tools that have sane default workflows. Learn to live with the defaults I guess :) Then the hurdle is just getting programs installed. Which I'd prefer to do clean slate instead of from a backup to get rid of cruft.