13 ms·

Microsoft’s Very Good Day

190 points by jeo1234 11y ago

andosa 11y ago
It definitely feels like Microsoft is on the right track with Nadella in charge.
- martin-adams 11y ago
  I definitely agree, and get the feeling that the company culture now is more about building the right innovation for users than spinning the same products for more revenue.
- emerongi 11y ago
  I believe so as well. They've switched focus and are going in the right direction now. A few years ago I actually advised everyone to not use Microsoft's products. Every single product was subpar (Windows, Windows Phone, their laptops etc). Today, I'm happy to advise Surface Pro, Windows Phone, etc to anyone. They're striving more for innovation (e.g. Surface Pro, Surface Book), which is cool and will bring them success.
  - greyman 11y ago
    I agree with the general sentiment, but imho Windows Phone is still not there. Lot of apps are iOS+Android only, or the WP alternative is sub-par.
    - CaptainZapp 11y ago
      While I agree on the app front, which is not really that relevant to me, I still believe that it came a very long way in terms of UI and usability. The one thing I dislike is the mail application (well, one day when I have the nerve and gumption I'll actually figure out how to attach a PDF, I think it has something to do with OneDrive and compatible applications, but I digress) and that there's not really an alternative to it. In terms of usability it feels to me snappier and more logical than the IPhone of my girlfriend. Even after almost two years it doesn't feel like the performance is degrading. If they don't kill the platform I plan to stick with it.
    - WorldMaker 11y ago
      The app situation is going to change very rapidly in the next few months. It's why Microsoft is making a big deal of the Windows 10 install base. There was a quick slide follow up in the devices announcement that showed that the growing install base has already attracted some big companies to the UWP [Universal Windows Platform] that previously had be meh on Windows Phone. With Windows 10 on phones in November that platform will light up on phones finally. (Already the UWP Facebook app, as one example, is a leap forward in cross-OS feature parity compared to previous versions and it will be great to see that "day one" on Windows 10 phones.) On top of that you have "Project Astoria" which will mean very easy ports of existing Android apps to Windows 10 Phones for developers looking to leverage existing code investment. (Already somewhat released and being utilized is "Project Islandwood" and we're starting to see some iOS software ported to Windows through it.) The UWP support on the Xbox One (and the merging of the Xbox and Windows Stores, huzzah) is supposed to light up as soon as November and we now know that a lot more developers will have access to HoloLens (which will also utilize the UWP) early next year. I think that access to Xboxen and HoloLens will encourage more developers to also consider cheaply scaling "down" to people's phones as well. So too should Continuum phones and their ability to offer side-by-side run "desktop-like" versions of UWP apps may drive some interesting apps to Windows Phone moving forward that have ignored it thus far.
    - rdudek 11y ago
      I only use a handful of apps on my phone and the ones I do use, do everything I need out of them. As someone who used iPhones, androids, and now as of this year a Windows Phone, I have to say, the UI is extremely well done. The live tiles give me most of the information I need. Glance is great, I don't have to turn the phone on, I just lift it and it gives me a low light version of date, time, notifications, etc. I'm definitely going to pick up the Lumia 950XL phone when it goes on sale.
- aswerty 11y ago
  Yeah, with the likes of .Net Core it seems very much like Microsoft are on the right track. But you'll still see plenty of, what I call, "Microsoft decisions" that just make things into more hassle or expense than it should be purely for the pursuit of profit. One example is if you want to migrate from Linux to Windows 10 on a few computers you're legally required to buy a Windows 10 license for each machine you run. So for people with a few machines that might be 3 licenses you have to pay for - it's just crazy.
  - pjc50 11y ago
    "You have to pay for our software to run it on a machine" is possibly the least crazy example you could have chosen. There's far more strangeness in Microsoft licensing: Terminal Server, the whole business of CALs, the vast number of SKUs with ambiguous names, VM licensing, and so on.
    - MarkyC4 11y ago
      > the vast number of SKUs In their defence, we did that to them. They had to make all the N versions of Windows to appease EU courts. What's troubling is that no such restriction is placed on Apple or Google
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - arethuza 11y ago
    I think you can license Windows on a per-user basis. Certainly for their higher end products (e.g. Dynamics AX ERP) you can choose device or user CALs and pick whichever one minimizes your license costs. One of Microsoft's weaknesses is definitely the complexity of their licensing.
  - hvidgaard 11y ago
    A license per machine. How is that wierd? The entire industry of commercial software works that way, one way or another. Either you pay per user, or pay per machine. Note you can run several VMs with Windows without paying for a licens. Honestly, I believe it's a matter of time before Windows is free anyway.
- venomsnake 11y ago
  Lets wait and see, if they will be able to reclaim consumer space and make money of it.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  I like nearly everything Microsoft is currently doing, except for their attitude towards privacy, which means that I'll be making efforts to move away from their platform out of principal.
  - hvidgaard 11y ago
    As compared to Apples ecosystem, or Android, or? I simply don't get it. All of it is there to improve the experience for most users, and possible to turn the chatter of such that it shares next to nothing. What more could you ask for, in a system that aims to make is simple and feature rich for the average person?
    - ZenoArrow 11y ago
      > "As compared to Apples ecosystem, or Android, or?" As compared to most/all open-source OSes (Android being only partially open source). This includes mobile OSes. > " All of it is there to improve the experience for most users, and possible to turn the chatter of such that it shares next to nothing. What more could you ask for, in a system that aims to make is simple and feature rich for the average person?" Did you not see the stories about Microsoft collecting data even after the settings to disable the features in question were used?
      - hvidgaard 11y ago
        I have seen stories, however, I haven't seen my own Win10 machines being chatty with MS outside of what I ask it to. With that in mind, I have no reason not to trust MS when they say they're not collecting data unless it's enabled.
        ZenoArrow 11y ago
        Here's one example of a feature I dislike (description from http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/windows-10s-privacy-policy-is-the-new-normal/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/window... )... "Windows 10, however, shakes this up. Instead of two separate systems—one for error reporting, a second for collecting usage data—both have been rolled into one combined setting. This setting has four positions: off; basic error reporting and simple device capability reporting; enhanced diagnostic tracking that extends the basic information with more detailed error reporting, and usage telemetry; and full data, that adds process memory snapshots to the enhanced data. This means that there's no way to participate in error reporting without also participating in usage tracking, and vice versa. Further, the "off" option is only available in Windows 10 Enterprise. The common home user versions of Windows, Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Pro, always collect (and report) at least "Basic" level information and no way to turn off the feature entirely. The genuine privacy implications of this seem slight, but for those who absolutely do not want to send anything to Microsoft, Windows 10 is certainly a regression. Is Microsoft poring over this data, trying to sniff out the details of Windows users' lives and figure out all their secrets? It's highly unlikely—but the removal of the ability to turn off this reporting is nonetheless strange, and there's no clear reason for it."
hliyan 11y ago
It's amazing to think that such a massive behemoth could change direction in so little time.
- nateabele 11y ago
  This change has actually been brewing for a long time. I was at a summit they held for Open Source project leaders back in 2008, and we got to sit down with the dev teams for IIS, SQL Server, and some of their web dev tools. They were extremely open, helpful, and just wanted to collaborate on cool stuff. There were only a few pockets of "New Microsoft" back then, but they were there if you looked, and they were working their asses off to change the culture. Clearly their work has paid off.
  - NicoJuicy 11y ago
    I think some evangelists ( Phil Haack ( now @ github), Scott Guthrie, Scott Hanselman, ...) were ahead of Nadal when changing perception about Microsoft in terms of opensource and community.. It was a bottom-top approach with Nadal as result. Ballmer couldn't understand the new wave. Just like many "old" CEO's of software companies don't understand. I know companies who still keep programming in Access and Terminal Server, Asp forms, ... Just because their boss understands that.
    - curiousDog 11y ago
      Haha, yeah and to think of it I always rooted for Federer ;)
      - octatoan 11y ago
        GP probably meant Nadella, if someone's wondering.
- yitchelle 11y ago
  I am amazed by this observations well. I can't help but wonder if the change was already on the way when Nadella took over as CEO. The change as being pushed from the inside outwards, probably mostly by the MS tech folks. Because it is mostly the tech folks that care about type of transparency.
awjr 11y ago
Their partnership with Google over Typescript and the general openness that they are pushing is fantastic. I really feel they are giving a lot to the developer community. The Surface Book is an exceptional piece of kit. It is telling that the top end book (16GB/512SSD) was the only one at one point to be sold-out on pre-order. None of the other options include 16GB of ram and I think this is a shame, but you cannot fault what they have done here. Kudos. Microsoft now gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
- shmerl 11y ago
  I'm waiting for them to join Vulkan working group.
rottyguy 11y ago
I'm really surprised it didn't touch on the oncoming xplat-ness of .net in this round up. I feel like this is huge considering how much it connects the technology. To boot, c# is a top 10 language on github even though it's primarily a single platform language (https://github.com/blog/2047-language-trends-on-github https://github.com/blog/2047-language-trends-on-github)
ZeroGravitas 11y ago
There's been lots of positive announcements from Microsoft recently, but I think I'll save the applause for when they can do those cool things and actually make money from it, not from extorting cash for patents, office document lock-in, and all their other "bad microsoft" stuff.
- mrmondo 11y ago
  I'm on your boat with this. I haven't seen any change that truly 'matters'. I have noticed them trying to increase their presence on technical and social media but the content really isn't anything of substance which leads me to feel that they're purely marketing moves.
  - andosa 11y ago
    Not sure I follow. In what sense are things like Surface Pro, Hololens, Surface book laptop, open source .NET etc. purely marketing moves?
    - Touche 11y ago
      They haven't been hits, yet.
      - forgetsusername 11y ago
        They can only innovate, and have no control over what "hits". The above are good products.
        Touche 11y ago
        My interpretation of the grand parent's comments were that it's nice and all that "Microsoft is changing" but if it doesn't result in a turnaround in their fortunes with consumers and developers it's all for naught. So far I don't see any turnaround happening.
    - tdkl 11y ago
delish 11y ago
I struggle with changing my perception of Microsoft. I still characterize them by their Halloween documents and efforts to destroy Netscape. I would recommend the Surface to friends or family, which is a recent change. But I would never use Microsoft products. And not just because I'd be giving up years of Linux folk-knowledge. Childishly, when I watch a youtube video of someone far more skilled than me programming in Windows, I recoil a little. I strive to avoid bias; I don't want the change in perception to happen merely after people like me die. My bias is fallacious, but it holds like any other deeply-felt bias. Hell, I only recently stopped calling them M$.
- throwawaykf05 11y ago
  > I still characterize them by their Halloween documents... Anytime somebody mentions this, all I hear is, "They said mean things about my ideology of choice".
  - hga 11y ago
    Then you should actually skim them; while of course their presentation as "the Halloween documents" is propaganda, they're sufficiently damning in their own right. They financed a bogus lawfare campaign against Linux, although I doubt they knew it was utterly bogus (The SCO Group never actually owned any rights to UNIX(TM), and knew it before commencing the lawsuits.)
    - throwawaykf05 11y ago
      Yep, I've skimmed them (or at least, ESR's articles about them). Propaganda is a well-know weapon in business, only it is better known as "PR".
- NotOscarWilde 11y ago
  To cool down some of the optimism in this comment section: Microsoft is still accepting cash for practically every Android phone made because of their patent threats, or did they change their ways in this regard as well? (I am genuinely curious whether this continues; I tried to google "microsoft android patent threats" but found only news articles from 2013/2014 about the practice.)
mrmondo 11y ago
Clickbate marketing article name with little valuable substance. I tried Windows 10 in tablet mode and I found the whole experience to be disjointed. It felt out of touch with recent UX trends / advancements, the same old thing with a new skin and even more tiles. Everything I wanted to do took more 'clicks' that I was happy with and there's little-to-no consideration to power users. Am I the only one that doesn't see any signs of real innovation here?
- ino 11y ago
  They are marketing really hard where the tech nerds and devs are, astroturfing comment sections and sponsored articles everywhere. Things like Microsoft is changing and giving fuzzy feelings (really?), but the general audience is harder to get. I've seen huge billboards with surface 3 ads, special sections in stores, but I've never seen one in the wild.
  - lghh 11y ago
    They are pretty prevalent in school. At least in the Math and CS departments where I spend the majority of my time.
  - bane 11y ago
    I work for a medium sized tech company and the surfaces are absolutely ubiquitous, 1:1 with Mac books easily. People who have them absolutely adore them. I'm considering getting a surface book when the lease on my rmbpro is up.
- philliphaydon 11y ago
  I read this like you're just trying to find reason to hate MS and/or Windows... IMO
  - mrmondo 11y ago
    I don't hate them, I wish they'd become real competition. Competition and diversity in this industry is fundamental to its success. Unfortunately I only see the same old irrelevant, boring products almost no signs of innovation. They're one of the largest companies in the world and the best the best they can do is a tablet with a bendy keyboard running the same old OS with a new theme slapped haphazardly on top? Poor effort.
kriro 11y ago
I kind of thought the headline referred to the fact that they did finally release a patch that makes connecting to Exchange servers via Outlook possible again in the latest OS X. [too snarky, maybe but it was a pretty hilarious situation where both Apple and Microsoft failed fairly hard for a (short) while]
ableal 11y ago
"The company was so in love with P.C.s (the hub for all things and for all time to come) that it came late to the Internet and much, much too late to mobile phones." In the early 2000s, Microsoft did try pushing tablet computers, "pocket PCs" based on Windows CE (rivals to Palm PDAs) and even had Windows Phone OS in some smartphones. That did not gain traction, because the user experience was not captivating, and they had missed the insight that fingers would be the way to go. (I'm not sure if earlier the capacitive touchscreen technology was already available in alternative to the resistive screens that required a stylus.) I'd say that Apple's post-2007 success would not be possible without learning from Microsoft's expensive failures. But Microsoft did try.
- arnoooooo 11y ago
  IMHO, it was not about fingers. Palm PDAs were vastly superiors to me in terms of UI because, unlike Windows CE, they did not try to mimic a desktop experience.
walkingolof 11y ago
Wonder how much Nadella really changed vs the changed perception of the company, much of this stuff must have been brewing while Ballmer was at the helm..
- JustSomeNobody 11y ago
  But not likely because of Ballmer.
listic 11y ago
Microsoft's offerings still seem under-designed to me, on a second look. I still can't order Surface Pro (or Surface Book) with cellular modem; only Surface 3, an older and supposedly lower end device. I can't order Surface Book with 1TB drive, only a Surface Pro 4; despite the former being a more expensive and supposedly higher end device. Why so? As far as I understand, Microsoft still goes with the templates their hardware OEMs already have: Surface is based on a tablet template, while Surface Pro and Surface Book are supposedly based on different laptop templates and the available options are thus defined by the OEMs. This also explains why the 'Pro' versions 1 and 2 had cameras inferior to the 'non-Pro' versions. I wish Microsoft got their act together and gave more attention to design, while they are at it. If they are saying this is a tablet that can replace my computer, let it have what those tablets that can't have: cellular module. If it has a non-removable hard drive, let me have it in the greatest available capacity, sepecially while you already offer that on a lower-priced model.
- pmelendez 11y ago
  " I still can't order Surface Pro (or Surface Book) with cellular modem; only Surface 3", Can you order a Macbook Air with cellular modem? because that has always been the range they designed the SP for.
  - listic 11y ago
    1. No you can't, but I have always wondered why. 2. They might, but they say it's a tablet, and it looks like a tablet, and it has touch screen. Tablets (often) have cellular.
- gtk40 11y ago
  > I can't order Surface Book with 1TB drive Surface Book storage options listed as: "Solid state drive (SSD) options: 128GB, 256GB, 512GB, or 1TB." http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/devices/surface-book#techspec-block http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/devices/surface-book#... Is this just something not available right away, or do you not want a solid state? I am confused.
roymurdock 11y ago
It's funny how people will believe that one person, Satya Nadella, can have such a profound impact on a company of hundreds of thousands of people. It's all about crafting a story and offering people an explanation for why the company is changing. I wish there was some type of bayesian submarine-ometer[1] that took the baseline percentage chance of any "article" being dressed-up PR on a particular website and performed some type of analysis on the company's marketing spend, brand perception, buzzwords, the interests of the article's author, and the article's similarity to other positive articles on the company/product. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
Aldo_MX 11y ago
Godwin's Law warning I find more ridiculous the statement "we will never forgive Microsoft" than saying "we will never forgive Germany". They're a company, not a charity, they're in the business of making money, and if making money implies using "dirty tactics" such as saying phone manufacturers "bundle Office in your phones or we will use our patents against you" it will certainly happen regardless of which company we're talking about. Also, you should not be angered at Microsoft for collaborating with the NSA, but be angered at America for forcing companies to collaborate with the NSA. If you were in the position of Microsoft would you reject and risk loosing your company? Don't be ridiculous! If Apple is playing to be the victim right now, is because it's more profitable for them after the public outrage that followed Snowden's revelations. There is a real world outside the Free Software bubble, a real world where companies struggle to survive and any means to survive, even at the expense of the competition, will certainly happen.
- 3pt14159 11y ago
  Part of their survival is depending on consumer perception of their brand. Microsoft sold us out to the NSA for a big fat cheque. Apple and Google have been fighting doing so every step of the way. Companies that act like uncompetitive dicks should be shunned and regulated, especially when they do things like abuse the patent system. There is a real world outside of the Realism bubble. A real world where people struggle for justice, and justice, even at the expense of wasting time talking on the internet, will certainly happen.
  - Aldo_MX 11y ago
    Do you understand the concept of "national security"? If you were to invent, for example, teleporting, and you rejected selling your invention to the government, the most likely outcome would be that the government would confiscate your invention and recruit you against your will under threats of being jailed for risking "national security". There is no such thing as justice other than "abide by the law". Fine print: laws are subject to change, sometimes with good results by the perception of the majority of people, sometimes not.
octref 11y ago
Microsoft feels like the new Apple to me. I haven't used Apple's product in Jobs' era, but I've heard a lot of good stories about how solid and easy-to-use their software was. Now I'm on Yosemite, experiencing annoying bugs and unexpected quits/freezes on a daily basis. I don't even dare to update to El Capitan. Yesterday I upgraded to XCode 7.0.1, and all my swift projects failed to compile. If it's not for the touchpad and screen I'd rather go back to my Arch Linux laptop. Apple isn't bringing any more surprise or delight to me hardware-wise. And their software quality is declining day-by-day. Development wise, just take a look at XCode's newest reviews to learn how bad the dev experience is. Developers are what makes a platform succeed, and Apple doesn't seem to realize that. However, MS has been amazing since Nadella. My favorite news is open sourcing .NET and making it available for Linux. VSCode is also solid and even feels more polished than Atom to me. Hololens looks cool. Surface definitely lives up to its hype. Last week I interviewed with MS. At the end I asked about the interviewer's opinion on MS's change and attitude to Open Source, and in his response he had this line: "Because Open Source is the future". I can hardly imagine a MS staff in pre-Nadella era would have such opinions. MS has changed. I think people should put down their prejudice about MS's past and admit that. Going to Redmond next Wed for an onsite. Wish myself good luck.
- hga 11y ago
  I think people should put down their prejudice about MS's past There are some things that people find to be unforgivable. Not sure if anything MS has done qualifies for that for me, but in the area of gun control/the RKBA, which I've been fighting since the early '70s, there are companies like Ruger and Smith and Wesson which I absolutely refuse to do any business with after they betrayed US gun owners. Sounds like your problem is that OS X has become Apple's red headed stepchild, iOS isn't reported to be having problems of this magnitude last time I checked. Too bad OS X is Apple's development platform of choice (only possible one???) for iOS....
  - pweissbrod 11y ago
    In my eyes the only thing microsoft is uniquely guilty of is being the first dominant software company in a digital age. Both apple and google have had their turn at the same position and done most if not all of the same dubious actions to end-users and developers as microsoft. I respect a distrust for microsoft but I dont consider it rational to hate one of these big players more than another.
ChuckMcM 11y ago
I could not help myself, I had to get a surface book, it may end up in the pile of things with great potential but I had to give it a shot. Two devices were in the running for my 2015 tablet HW refresh, the Lenovo Yoga 3 and the iPad Pro. This sort of came out of left field. It has a lot to live up to, I use my iPad every day and for a variety of things, but something I always wanted to do on my iPad, sketch, wasn't very satisfactory. And while I liked the Surface Pro 3's pen experience, its battery life was a challenge and some key Apps weren't there. So long battery life, a better drawing experience, and a useful typing experience, and, for bonus, I can stop carrying around a laptop as well? Well if this thing can pull that off its a win for me, and I'll just put vmware workstation on it and run Linux when I'm doing my embedded work. But the other thing it has done is really highlight the impact of market windows. Had the iPad Pro come out last year, or even in Q1 of this year, I would be using it already and probably not be buying the Surface Book. For historical reasons the first thing I bought to try to do what I wanted was the "Touchbook" from Always Innovating. Detachable keyboard, touch screen. But not enough battery life, and the screen's resistive touch screen was not very useful. I also have the Illiad 2 from iREX which an an epaper display with a watcom stylus, loved the pen, and the readability of epaper, but very little app support and challenging storage options. For a while I've lived with both a laptop and the iPad. I'm really curious if this new box can meet my expectations.
- tluyben2 11y ago
  I for one am curious how much battery life you can really pull out of it. When I see 12 hours on the spec I usually don't get more than 7-8 and that's right there in the 'not enough for a day' zone for me.
  - ChuckMcM 11y ago
    Agreed, if it is less than 9 in the "real world" I'll be pretty disappointed. The thing that makes iPads work for me is that they save a lot of power when they are asleep, and they come back instantly when they are woken up (very phone like in that regard). If Microsoft has given W10 that ability on their Surface hardware it could do the trick for me. (the only time I go 8 - 9 hours straight on battery is when I'm travelling)
draw_down 11y ago
I remember using a Windows machine in 2006 that could also double as a tablet. (You could pivot the screen around and then fold it back on top of the keyboard.) It wasn't very good of course, and my point is that this idea is not new by a long shot. So is the enthusiasm for Surface Book coming from the fact that it's made by MS themselves? Beyond that, it strikes me that the way they talk focuses so much more on narrative than the actual products they're selling. Like "I want you to love MS because you love building things for other people" or whatever.
ksk 11y ago
Microsoft to me has always been good at 'businessy' stuff. Embrace partners, embrace developers, and keep users somewhat satisfied. If you help others make money, they're going to love you. Apple has been good at 'designy' stuff. Wow and embrace users, keep developers and partners somewhat satisfied. This explains why Apple doesn't really care about backwards compat, or communicating/co-coordinating releases with partners, etc. It looks like MS is taking a leaf out of Apples book. I wonder if they can continue to do the other stuff as well.
alexschleber 11y ago
The piece and ars technica video show both the good and the bad of this new MSFT attempt: Some good ideas, but let's be real - ultimately a total niche product at $1500. Compare that the surface pro 3 has been selling about 3-4 million units in the last year ( q3/2014 - q2/2015 revenue was estimated around $3b, on devices costing about $800 + $130 keyboard), while Apple sells about 20m Mac units in the same timeframe, which is in itself STILL a niche! www.statista.com/statistics/263444/sales-of-apple-mac-computers-since-first-quarter-2006/ I just don't see how this is going to make any sort of real dent.
Keyframe 11y ago
I don't have much feelings towards companies and technology. I use ones as I see fit. Windows has, since 7, been very useful to me. Even 8 (8.1 which I'm on right now). Windows has been my primary OS since 7. I augment it with Total Commander and Babun (cygwin) and that's it. Everything is great, except Babun which could use some more work (or I don't know how to use it). I also use Redhat on other workstation (due to graphics software dictating it) and it's not as usable on desktop as Windows and OSX are. That's not a surprise though. I also use OSX on my macbook air, because that's the best laptop I could've got for what I needed (lightweight, moderately powerful, battery life). I carry around Android Nexus 7 tablet as well, so new Surface Book looks like a good deal to me in order to get rid of macbook air/nexus 7 combo. Microsoft research also does some cool stuff in graphics which I've used (through their papers). I use Word and Excel all the time as well, along with Google Docs. those are just some random thoughts as I perceive them from my POV now.
alinspired 11y ago
MS/Windows/Office has always been a workhorse for me, but i might be in the process of becoming a MS fanboy :)

190 points by jeo1234 11y ago

andosa 11y ago

It definitely feels like Microsoft is on the right track with Nadella in charge.

martin-adams 11y ago
I definitely agree, and get the feeling that the company culture now is more about building the right innovation for users than spinning the same products for more revenue.
emerongi 11y ago
I believe so as well. They've switched focus and are going in the right direction now. A few years ago I actually advised everyone to not use Microsoft's products. Every single product was subpar (Windows, Windows Phone, their laptops etc). Today, I'm happy to advise Surface Pro, Windows Phone, etc to anyone. They're striving more for innovation (e.g. Surface Pro, Surface Book), which is cool and will bring them success.
- greyman 11y ago
  I agree with the general sentiment, but imho Windows Phone is still not there. Lot of apps are iOS+Android only, or the WP alternative is sub-par.
  - CaptainZapp 11y ago
    While I agree on the app front, which is not really that relevant to me, I still believe that it came a very long way in terms of UI and usability. The one thing I dislike is the mail application (well, one day when I have the nerve and gumption I'll actually figure out how to attach a PDF, I think it has something to do with OneDrive and compatible applications, but I digress) and that there's not really an alternative to it. In terms of usability it feels to me snappier and more logical than the IPhone of my girlfriend. Even after almost two years it doesn't feel like the performance is degrading. If they don't kill the platform I plan to stick with it.
  - WorldMaker 11y ago
    The app situation is going to change very rapidly in the next few months. It's why Microsoft is making a big deal of the Windows 10 install base. There was a quick slide follow up in the devices announcement that showed that the growing install base has already attracted some big companies to the UWP [Universal Windows Platform] that previously had be meh on Windows Phone. With Windows 10 on phones in November that platform will light up on phones finally. (Already the UWP Facebook app, as one example, is a leap forward in cross-OS feature parity compared to previous versions and it will be great to see that "day one" on Windows 10 phones.) On top of that you have "Project Astoria" which will mean very easy ports of existing Android apps to Windows 10 Phones for developers looking to leverage existing code investment. (Already somewhat released and being utilized is "Project Islandwood" and we're starting to see some iOS software ported to Windows through it.) The UWP support on the Xbox One (and the merging of the Xbox and Windows Stores, huzzah) is supposed to light up as soon as November and we now know that a lot more developers will have access to HoloLens (which will also utilize the UWP) early next year. I think that access to Xboxen and HoloLens will encourage more developers to also consider cheaply scaling "down" to people's phones as well. So too should Continuum phones and their ability to offer side-by-side run "desktop-like" versions of UWP apps may drive some interesting apps to Windows Phone moving forward that have ignored it thus far.
  - rdudek 11y ago
    I only use a handful of apps on my phone and the ones I do use, do everything I need out of them. As someone who used iPhones, androids, and now as of this year a Windows Phone, I have to say, the UI is extremely well done. The live tiles give me most of the information I need. Glance is great, I don't have to turn the phone on, I just lift it and it gives me a low light version of date, time, notifications, etc. I'm definitely going to pick up the Lumia 950XL phone when it goes on sale.
aswerty 11y ago
Yeah, with the likes of .Net Core it seems very much like Microsoft are on the right track. But you'll still see plenty of, what I call, "Microsoft decisions" that just make things into more hassle or expense than it should be purely for the pursuit of profit. One example is if you want to migrate from Linux to Windows 10 on a few computers you're legally required to buy a Windows 10 license for each machine you run. So for people with a few machines that might be 3 licenses you have to pay for - it's just crazy.
- pjc50 11y ago
  "You have to pay for our software to run it on a machine" is possibly the least crazy example you could have chosen. There's far more strangeness in Microsoft licensing: Terminal Server, the whole business of CALs, the vast number of SKUs with ambiguous names, VM licensing, and so on.
  - MarkyC4 11y ago
    > the vast number of SKUs In their defence, we did that to them. They had to make all the N versions of Windows to appease EU courts. What's troubling is that no such restriction is placed on Apple or Google
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- arethuza 11y ago
  I think you can license Windows on a per-user basis. Certainly for their higher end products (e.g. Dynamics AX ERP) you can choose device or user CALs and pick whichever one minimizes your license costs. One of Microsoft's weaknesses is definitely the complexity of their licensing.
- hvidgaard 11y ago
  A license per machine. How is that wierd? The entire industry of commercial software works that way, one way or another. Either you pay per user, or pay per machine. Note you can run several VMs with Windows without paying for a licens. Honestly, I believe it's a matter of time before Windows is free anyway.
venomsnake 11y ago
Lets wait and see, if they will be able to reclaim consumer space and make money of it.
ZenoArrow 11y ago
I like nearly everything Microsoft is currently doing, except for their attitude towards privacy, which means that I'll be making efforts to move away from their platform out of principal.
- hvidgaard 11y ago
  As compared to Apples ecosystem, or Android, or? I simply don't get it. All of it is there to improve the experience for most users, and possible to turn the chatter of such that it shares next to nothing. What more could you ask for, in a system that aims to make is simple and feature rich for the average person?
  - ZenoArrow 11y ago
    > "As compared to Apples ecosystem, or Android, or?" As compared to most/all open-source OSes (Android being only partially open source). This includes mobile OSes. > " All of it is there to improve the experience for most users, and possible to turn the chatter of such that it shares next to nothing. What more could you ask for, in a system that aims to make is simple and feature rich for the average person?" Did you not see the stories about Microsoft collecting data even after the settings to disable the features in question were used?
    - hvidgaard 11y ago
      I have seen stories, however, I haven't seen my own Win10 machines being chatty with MS outside of what I ask it to. With that in mind, I have no reason not to trust MS when they say they're not collecting data unless it's enabled.
      - ZenoArrow 11y ago
        Here's one example of a feature I dislike (description from http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/windows-10s-privacy-policy-is-the-new-normal/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/window... )... "Windows 10, however, shakes this up. Instead of two separate systems—one for error reporting, a second for collecting usage data—both have been rolled into one combined setting. This setting has four positions: off; basic error reporting and simple device capability reporting; enhanced diagnostic tracking that extends the basic information with more detailed error reporting, and usage telemetry; and full data, that adds process memory snapshots to the enhanced data. This means that there's no way to participate in error reporting without also participating in usage tracking, and vice versa. Further, the "off" option is only available in Windows 10 Enterprise. The common home user versions of Windows, Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Pro, always collect (and report) at least "Basic" level information and no way to turn off the feature entirely. The genuine privacy implications of this seem slight, but for those who absolutely do not want to send anything to Microsoft, Windows 10 is certainly a regression. Is Microsoft poring over this data, trying to sniff out the details of Windows users' lives and figure out all their secrets? It's highly unlikely—but the removal of the ability to turn off this reporting is nonetheless strange, and there's no clear reason for it."

hliyan 11y ago

It's amazing to think that such a massive behemoth could change direction in so little time.

nateabele 11y ago
This change has actually been brewing for a long time. I was at a summit they held for Open Source project leaders back in 2008, and we got to sit down with the dev teams for IIS, SQL Server, and some of their web dev tools. They were extremely open, helpful, and just wanted to collaborate on cool stuff. There were only a few pockets of "New Microsoft" back then, but they were there if you looked, and they were working their asses off to change the culture. Clearly their work has paid off.
- NicoJuicy 11y ago
  I think some evangelists ( Phil Haack ( now @ github), Scott Guthrie, Scott Hanselman, ...) were ahead of Nadal when changing perception about Microsoft in terms of opensource and community.. It was a bottom-top approach with Nadal as result. Ballmer couldn't understand the new wave. Just like many "old" CEO's of software companies don't understand. I know companies who still keep programming in Access and Terminal Server, Asp forms, ... Just because their boss understands that.
  - curiousDog 11y ago
    Haha, yeah and to think of it I always rooted for Federer ;)
    - octatoan 11y ago
      GP probably meant Nadella, if someone's wondering.
yitchelle 11y ago
I am amazed by this observations well. I can't help but wonder if the change was already on the way when Nadella took over as CEO. The change as being pushed from the inside outwards, probably mostly by the MS tech folks. Because it is mostly the tech folks that care about type of transparency.

awjr 11y ago

Their partnership with Google over Typescript and the general openness that they are pushing is fantastic. I really feel they are giving a lot to the developer community. The Surface Book is an exceptional piece of kit. It is telling that the top end book (16GB/512SSD) was the only one at one point to be sold-out on pre-order. None of the other options include 16GB of ram and I think this is a shame, but you cannot fault what they have done here. Kudos. Microsoft now gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

shmerl 11y ago
I'm waiting for them to join Vulkan working group.

rottyguy 11y ago

I'm really surprised it didn't touch on the oncoming xplat-ness of .net in this round up. I feel like this is huge considering how much it connects the technology. To boot, c# is a top 10 language on github even though it's primarily a single platform language (https://github.com/blog/2047-language-trends-on-github https://github.com/blog/2047-language-trends-on-github)

ZeroGravitas 11y ago

There's been lots of positive announcements from Microsoft recently, but I think I'll save the applause for when they can do those cool things and actually make money from it, not from extorting cash for patents, office document lock-in, and all their other "bad microsoft" stuff.

mrmondo 11y ago
I'm on your boat with this. I haven't seen any change that truly 'matters'. I have noticed them trying to increase their presence on technical and social media but the content really isn't anything of substance which leads me to feel that they're purely marketing moves.
- andosa 11y ago
  Not sure I follow. In what sense are things like Surface Pro, Hololens, Surface book laptop, open source .NET etc. purely marketing moves?
  - Touche 11y ago
    They haven't been hits, yet.
    - forgetsusername 11y ago
      They can only innovate, and have no control over what "hits". The above are good products.
      - Touche 11y ago
        My interpretation of the grand parent's comments were that it's nice and all that "Microsoft is changing" but if it doesn't result in a turnaround in their fortunes with consumers and developers it's all for naught. So far I don't see any turnaround happening.
  - tdkl 11y ago

delish 11y ago

I struggle with changing my perception of Microsoft. I still characterize them by their Halloween documents and efforts to destroy Netscape. I would recommend the Surface to friends or family, which is a recent change. But I would never use Microsoft products. And not just because I'd be giving up years of Linux folk-knowledge. Childishly, when I watch a youtube video of someone far more skilled than me programming in Windows, I recoil a little. I strive to avoid bias; I don't want the change in perception to happen merely after people like me die. My bias is fallacious, but it holds like any other deeply-felt bias. Hell, I only recently stopped calling them M$.

throwawaykf05 11y ago
> I still characterize them by their Halloween documents... Anytime somebody mentions this, all I hear is, "They said mean things about my ideology of choice".
- hga 11y ago
  Then you should actually skim them; while of course their presentation as "the Halloween documents" is propaganda, they're sufficiently damning in their own right. They financed a bogus lawfare campaign against Linux, although I doubt they knew it was utterly bogus (The SCO Group never actually owned any rights to UNIX(TM), and knew it before commencing the lawsuits.)
  - throwawaykf05 11y ago
    Yep, I've skimmed them (or at least, ESR's articles about them). Propaganda is a well-know weapon in business, only it is better known as "PR".
NotOscarWilde 11y ago
To cool down some of the optimism in this comment section: Microsoft is still accepting cash for practically every Android phone made because of their patent threats, or did they change their ways in this regard as well? (I am genuinely curious whether this continues; I tried to google "microsoft android patent threats" but found only news articles from 2013/2014 about the practice.)

mrmondo 11y ago

Clickbate marketing article name with little valuable substance. I tried Windows 10 in tablet mode and I found the whole experience to be disjointed. It felt out of touch with recent UX trends / advancements, the same old thing with a new skin and even more tiles. Everything I wanted to do took more 'clicks' that I was happy with and there's little-to-no consideration to power users. Am I the only one that doesn't see any signs of real innovation here?

ino 11y ago
They are marketing really hard where the tech nerds and devs are, astroturfing comment sections and sponsored articles everywhere. Things like Microsoft is changing and giving fuzzy feelings (really?), but the general audience is harder to get. I've seen huge billboards with surface 3 ads, special sections in stores, but I've never seen one in the wild.
- lghh 11y ago
  They are pretty prevalent in school. At least in the Math and CS departments where I spend the majority of my time.
- bane 11y ago
  I work for a medium sized tech company and the surfaces are absolutely ubiquitous, 1:1 with Mac books easily. People who have them absolutely adore them. I'm considering getting a surface book when the lease on my rmbpro is up.
philliphaydon 11y ago
I read this like you're just trying to find reason to hate MS and/or Windows... IMO
- mrmondo 11y ago
  I don't hate them, I wish they'd become real competition. Competition and diversity in this industry is fundamental to its success. Unfortunately I only see the same old irrelevant, boring products almost no signs of innovation. They're one of the largest companies in the world and the best the best they can do is a tablet with a bendy keyboard running the same old OS with a new theme slapped haphazardly on top? Poor effort.

kriro 11y ago

I kind of thought the headline referred to the fact that they did finally release a patch that makes connecting to Exchange servers via Outlook possible again in the latest OS X. [too snarky, maybe but it was a pretty hilarious situation where both Apple and Microsoft failed fairly hard for a (short) while]

ableal 11y ago

"The company was so in love with P.C.s (the hub for all things and for all time to come) that it came late to the Internet and much, much too late to mobile phones." In the early 2000s, Microsoft did try pushing tablet computers, "pocket PCs" based on Windows CE (rivals to Palm PDAs) and even had Windows Phone OS in some smartphones. That did not gain traction, because the user experience was not captivating, and they had missed the insight that fingers would be the way to go. (I'm not sure if earlier the capacitive touchscreen technology was already available in alternative to the resistive screens that required a stylus.) I'd say that Apple's post-2007 success would not be possible without learning from Microsoft's expensive failures. But Microsoft did try.

arnoooooo 11y ago
IMHO, it was not about fingers. Palm PDAs were vastly superiors to me in terms of UI because, unlike Windows CE, they did not try to mimic a desktop experience.

walkingolof 11y ago

Wonder how much Nadella really changed vs the changed perception of the company, much of this stuff must have been brewing while Ballmer was at the helm..

JustSomeNobody 11y ago
But not likely because of Ballmer.

listic 11y ago

Microsoft's offerings still seem under-designed to me, on a second look. I still can't order Surface Pro (or Surface Book) with cellular modem; only Surface 3, an older and supposedly lower end device. I can't order Surface Book with 1TB drive, only a Surface Pro 4; despite the former being a more expensive and supposedly higher end device. Why so? As far as I understand, Microsoft still goes with the templates their hardware OEMs already have: Surface is based on a tablet template, while Surface Pro and Surface Book are supposedly based on different laptop templates and the available options are thus defined by the OEMs. This also explains why the 'Pro' versions 1 and 2 had cameras inferior to the 'non-Pro' versions. I wish Microsoft got their act together and gave more attention to design, while they are at it. If they are saying this is a tablet that can replace my computer, let it have what those tablets that can't have: cellular module. If it has a non-removable hard drive, let me have it in the greatest available capacity, sepecially while you already offer that on a lower-priced model.

pmelendez 11y ago
" I still can't order Surface Pro (or Surface Book) with cellular modem; only Surface 3", Can you order a Macbook Air with cellular modem? because that has always been the range they designed the SP for.
- listic 11y ago
  1. No you can't, but I have always wondered why. 2. They might, but they say it's a tablet, and it looks like a tablet, and it has touch screen. Tablets (often) have cellular.
gtk40 11y ago
> I can't order Surface Book with 1TB drive Surface Book storage options listed as: "Solid state drive (SSD) options: 128GB, 256GB, 512GB, or 1TB." http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/devices/surface-book#techspec-block http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/devices/surface-book#... Is this just something not available right away, or do you not want a solid state? I am confused.

roymurdock 11y ago

It's funny how people will believe that one person, Satya Nadella, can have such a profound impact on a company of hundreds of thousands of people. It's all about crafting a story and offering people an explanation for why the company is changing. I wish there was some type of bayesian submarine-ometer[1] that took the baseline percentage chance of any "article" being dressed-up PR on a particular website and performed some type of analysis on the company's marketing spend, brand perception, buzzwords, the interests of the article's author, and the article's similarity to other positive articles on the company/product. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

Aldo_MX 11y ago

Godwin's Law warning I find more ridiculous the statement "we will never forgive Microsoft" than saying "we will never forgive Germany". They're a company, not a charity, they're in the business of making money, and if making money implies using "dirty tactics" such as saying phone manufacturers "bundle Office in your phones or we will use our patents against you" it will certainly happen regardless of which company we're talking about. Also, you should not be angered at Microsoft for collaborating with the NSA, but be angered at America for forcing companies to collaborate with the NSA. If you were in the position of Microsoft would you reject and risk loosing your company? Don't be ridiculous! If Apple is playing to be the victim right now, is because it's more profitable for them after the public outrage that followed Snowden's revelations. There is a real world outside the Free Software bubble, a real world where companies struggle to survive and any means to survive, even at the expense of the competition, will certainly happen.

3pt14159 11y ago
Part of their survival is depending on consumer perception of their brand. Microsoft sold us out to the NSA for a big fat cheque. Apple and Google have been fighting doing so every step of the way. Companies that act like uncompetitive dicks should be shunned and regulated, especially when they do things like abuse the patent system. There is a real world outside of the Realism bubble. A real world where people struggle for justice, and justice, even at the expense of wasting time talking on the internet, will certainly happen.
- Aldo_MX 11y ago
  Do you understand the concept of "national security"? If you were to invent, for example, teleporting, and you rejected selling your invention to the government, the most likely outcome would be that the government would confiscate your invention and recruit you against your will under threats of being jailed for risking "national security". There is no such thing as justice other than "abide by the law". Fine print: laws are subject to change, sometimes with good results by the perception of the majority of people, sometimes not.

octref 11y ago

Microsoft feels like the new Apple to me. I haven't used Apple's product in Jobs' era, but I've heard a lot of good stories about how solid and easy-to-use their software was. Now I'm on Yosemite, experiencing annoying bugs and unexpected quits/freezes on a daily basis. I don't even dare to update to El Capitan. Yesterday I upgraded to XCode 7.0.1, and all my swift projects failed to compile. If it's not for the touchpad and screen I'd rather go back to my Arch Linux laptop. Apple isn't bringing any more surprise or delight to me hardware-wise. And their software quality is declining day-by-day. Development wise, just take a look at XCode's newest reviews to learn how bad the dev experience is. Developers are what makes a platform succeed, and Apple doesn't seem to realize that. However, MS has been amazing since Nadella. My favorite news is open sourcing .NET and making it available for Linux. VSCode is also solid and even feels more polished than Atom to me. Hololens looks cool. Surface definitely lives up to its hype. Last week I interviewed with MS. At the end I asked about the interviewer's opinion on MS's change and attitude to Open Source, and in his response he had this line: "Because Open Source is the future". I can hardly imagine a MS staff in pre-Nadella era would have such opinions. MS has changed. I think people should put down their prejudice about MS's past and admit that. Going to Redmond next Wed for an onsite. Wish myself good luck.

hga 11y ago
I think people should put down their prejudice about MS's past There are some things that people find to be unforgivable. Not sure if anything MS has done qualifies for that for me, but in the area of gun control/the RKBA, which I've been fighting since the early '70s, there are companies like Ruger and Smith and Wesson which I absolutely refuse to do any business with after they betrayed US gun owners. Sounds like your problem is that OS X has become Apple's red headed stepchild, iOS isn't reported to be having problems of this magnitude last time I checked. Too bad OS X is Apple's development platform of choice (only possible one???) for iOS....
- pweissbrod 11y ago
  In my eyes the only thing microsoft is uniquely guilty of is being the first dominant software company in a digital age. Both apple and google have had their turn at the same position and done most if not all of the same dubious actions to end-users and developers as microsoft. I respect a distrust for microsoft but I dont consider it rational to hate one of these big players more than another.

ChuckMcM 11y ago

I could not help myself, I had to get a surface book, it may end up in the pile of things with great potential but I had to give it a shot. Two devices were in the running for my 2015 tablet HW refresh, the Lenovo Yoga 3 and the iPad Pro. This sort of came out of left field. It has a lot to live up to, I use my iPad every day and for a variety of things, but something I always wanted to do on my iPad, sketch, wasn't very satisfactory. And while I liked the Surface Pro 3's pen experience, its battery life was a challenge and some key Apps weren't there. So long battery life, a better drawing experience, and a useful typing experience, and, for bonus, I can stop carrying around a laptop as well? Well if this thing can pull that off its a win for me, and I'll just put vmware workstation on it and run Linux when I'm doing my embedded work. But the other thing it has done is really highlight the impact of market windows. Had the iPad Pro come out last year, or even in Q1 of this year, I would be using it already and probably not be buying the Surface Book. For historical reasons the first thing I bought to try to do what I wanted was the "Touchbook" from Always Innovating. Detachable keyboard, touch screen. But not enough battery life, and the screen's resistive touch screen was not very useful. I also have the Illiad 2 from iREX which an an epaper display with a watcom stylus, loved the pen, and the readability of epaper, but very little app support and challenging storage options. For a while I've lived with both a laptop and the iPad. I'm really curious if this new box can meet my expectations.

tluyben2 11y ago
I for one am curious how much battery life you can really pull out of it. When I see 12 hours on the spec I usually don't get more than 7-8 and that's right there in the 'not enough for a day' zone for me.
- ChuckMcM 11y ago
  Agreed, if it is less than 9 in the "real world" I'll be pretty disappointed. The thing that makes iPads work for me is that they save a lot of power when they are asleep, and they come back instantly when they are woken up (very phone like in that regard). If Microsoft has given W10 that ability on their Surface hardware it could do the trick for me. (the only time I go 8 - 9 hours straight on battery is when I'm travelling)

draw_down 11y ago

I remember using a Windows machine in 2006 that could also double as a tablet. (You could pivot the screen around and then fold it back on top of the keyboard.) It wasn't very good of course, and my point is that this idea is not new by a long shot. So is the enthusiasm for Surface Book coming from the fact that it's made by MS themselves? Beyond that, it strikes me that the way they talk focuses so much more on narrative than the actual products they're selling. Like "I want you to love MS because you love building things for other people" or whatever.

ksk 11y ago

Microsoft to me has always been good at 'businessy' stuff. Embrace partners, embrace developers, and keep users somewhat satisfied. If you help others make money, they're going to love you. Apple has been good at 'designy' stuff. Wow and embrace users, keep developers and partners somewhat satisfied. This explains why Apple doesn't really care about backwards compat, or communicating/co-coordinating releases with partners, etc. It looks like MS is taking a leaf out of Apples book. I wonder if they can continue to do the other stuff as well.

alexschleber 11y ago

The piece and ars technica video show both the good and the bad of this new MSFT attempt: Some good ideas, but let's be real - ultimately a total niche product at $1500. Compare that the surface pro 3 has been selling about 3-4 million units in the last year ( q3/2014 - q2/2015 revenue was estimated around $3b, on devices costing about $800 + $130 keyboard), while Apple sells about 20m Mac units in the same timeframe, which is in itself STILL a niche! www.statista.com/statistics/263444/sales-of-apple-mac-computers-since-first-quarter-2006/ I just don't see how this is going to make any sort of real dent.

Keyframe 11y ago

I don't have much feelings towards companies and technology. I use ones as I see fit. Windows has, since 7, been very useful to me. Even 8 (8.1 which I'm on right now). Windows has been my primary OS since 7. I augment it with Total Commander and Babun (cygwin) and that's it. Everything is great, except Babun which could use some more work (or I don't know how to use it). I also use Redhat on other workstation (due to graphics software dictating it) and it's not as usable on desktop as Windows and OSX are. That's not a surprise though. I also use OSX on my macbook air, because that's the best laptop I could've got for what I needed (lightweight, moderately powerful, battery life). I carry around Android Nexus 7 tablet as well, so new Surface Book looks like a good deal to me in order to get rid of macbook air/nexus 7 combo. Microsoft research also does some cool stuff in graphics which I've used (through their papers). I use Word and Excel all the time as well, along with Google Docs. those are just some random thoughts as I perceive them from my POV now.

alinspired 11y ago

MS/Windows/Office has always been a workhorse for me, but i might be in the process of becoming a MS fanboy :)