4 ms·

I hear this often enough at Uni. What bugs me about this is that the people who would have benefit from these policies, such as my ancestors, are long dead and

I hear this often enough at Uni. What bugs me about this is that the people who would have benefit from these policies, such as my ancestors, are long dead and gone. The people who oppressed them are also dead. While I can buy your argument for poor people in general, I can't understand applying a non-meritocratic basis on the basis of gender or race. A rich minority boy or white girl has access to a great deal of resources more than a poor backwoods white boy. And the sort of symbolic victory style stuff that goes on in both academic circles and in magazines just doesn't help us at all. I would have given anything for there to be resources about how to dress well in western clothing, find and eat healthy religiously-acceptable food, and understand the intricacies of western culture. But instead I got a self-congratulatory lecture on embracing our native culture. What good is that at all?

eru 11y ago
> But instead I got a self-congratulatory lecture on embracing our native culture. What good is that at all? Apparently it's not about actually helping people, let alone poor people or minorities. My guess is that those measures are about signalling one's factional allegiance. See also http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/politics-isnt-a.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/politics-isnt-a.html
akozak 11y ago
"the people who would have benefit from these policies [...] are long dead and gone. The people who oppressed them are also dead." In a way, public policy can still reward your ancestors and punish their oppressors, despite their death. I'd bet your ancestors would have wanted opportunities for their descendants, just as we do for our kids and grandchildren.
dubya 11y ago
What bugs me about this is that the people who would have benefit from these policies, such as my ancestors, are long dead and gone. The people who oppressed them are also dead. At least in the US, Brown v. Board of Education was 1954, and the Little Rock high school integration was 1957. As far as I know, all nine of the students are still alive. People who are now 75 were born at the same time as the black students who had to be escorted by US Marshalls to attend a previously all-white high school, so it's not really ancient history yet.
- hackuser 11y ago
  > so it's not really ancient history yet It's current events; though things have improved, discrimination still is widespread.
hackuser 11y ago
> the people who would have benefit from these policies ... are long dead and gone I don't think the facts support that. Look at political leaders, business leaders in SV and elsewhere, the film industry, and, I expect, the voices on HN, both in the articles and discussions; they are overwhelmingly white males. Those are the stories we hear and the perspectives we unconciously accept. If we don't make an effort at diversity, then history shows that this non-meritocratic, race and gender-based system will persist.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> What bugs me about this is that the people who would have benefit from these policies, such as my ancestors, are long dead and gone. The people who directly benefited (or suffered) from de jure discrimination by race in the US aren't even dead and gone -- there are people alive today that were adults when those policies existed -- much less the people that indirectly benefited by way of, e.g., having an advantage (resp., disadvantage) in opportunity because their parents wealth/education/etc. was directly influenced by those policies.
- eru 11y ago
  Compare http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/26/compound-interest-is-the-least-powerful-force-in-the-universe/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/26/compound-interest-is-th...

eru 11y ago

> But instead I got a self-congratulatory lecture on embracing our native culture. What good is that at all? Apparently it's not about actually helping people, let alone poor people or minorities. My guess is that those measures are about signalling one's factional allegiance. See also http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/politics-isnt-a.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/politics-isnt-a.html

akozak 11y ago

"the people who would have benefit from these policies [...] are long dead and gone. The people who oppressed them are also dead." In a way, public policy can still reward your ancestors and punish their oppressors, despite their death. I'd bet your ancestors would have wanted opportunities for their descendants, just as we do for our kids and grandchildren.

dubya 11y ago

What bugs me about this is that the people who would have benefit from these policies, such as my ancestors, are long dead and gone. The people who oppressed them are also dead. At least in the US, Brown v. Board of Education was 1954, and the Little Rock high school integration was 1957. As far as I know, all nine of the students are still alive. People who are now 75 were born at the same time as the black students who had to be escorted by US Marshalls to attend a previously all-white high school, so it's not really ancient history yet.

hackuser 11y ago
> so it's not really ancient history yet It's current events; though things have improved, discrimination still is widespread.

hackuser 11y ago

> the people who would have benefit from these policies ... are long dead and gone I don't think the facts support that. Look at political leaders, business leaders in SV and elsewhere, the film industry, and, I expect, the voices on HN, both in the articles and discussions; they are overwhelmingly white males. Those are the stories we hear and the perspectives we unconciously accept. If we don't make an effort at diversity, then history shows that this non-meritocratic, race and gender-based system will persist.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> What bugs me about this is that the people who would have benefit from these policies, such as my ancestors, are long dead and gone. The people who directly benefited (or suffered) from de jure discrimination by race in the US aren't even dead and gone -- there are people alive today that were adults when those policies existed -- much less the people that indirectly benefited by way of, e.g., having an advantage (resp., disadvantage) in opportunity because their parents wealth/education/etc. was directly influenced by those policies.

eru 11y ago
Compare http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/26/compound-interest-is-the-least-powerful-force-in-the-universe/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/26/compound-interest-is-th...