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Even anonymous-online-presence doesn't protect you from those people though. If you're a woman online trying to hide your gender from bigots/sexists/perverts,

by smtddr 11y ago

Even anonymous-online-presence doesn't protect you from those people though. If you're a woman online trying to hide your gender from bigots/sexists/perverts, you have to make sure you don't say anything that'll give you away. You can't talk about being pregnant or morning sickness or any kind of events in your life that are female exclusive... or near exclusive. And online videogames that have realtime audio/visual with other players? Those features are pretty much off limit since your appearance/voice will most likely reveal your gender... most of the time. If you're a minority online trying to hide your identity from bigots/racists, you have to avoid talking too much about your family history or parts of your childhood growing up because usually those contain events that'll give strong hints to your nationality. For example, if I wanted to hide the fact that my family is from Nigeria... I can't talk about my trips to visit my family in Nigeria. I can't talk about the fact that my wedding was in Nigeria since I know what most people would assume and/or ask once they learned that fact. I can't tell you how/where I first saw my wife. I probably can't tell you some of my favorite meals. Sure, on some sites like HN that's mostly tech focused I can probably go a pretty long time without anyone figuring out I'm black. But sites that aren't tech focused, sites that are more... i dunno... human focused, with topics all about life in general, not bringing up my background will be harder if I want to partake in conversation. Historically discriminated-against sectors of our society shouldn't have to double-think every statement they make online or offline to keep some part of their identity a secret. If we go that route, then the those sectors are on constant defense and the bigots are on constant offense... and eventually, bigots win because their biases will only grow. This is equiv to the military's "Don't-ask-don't-tell" position on Homosexuality. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_ask,_don't_tell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_ask,_don't_tell ...at best, it's a temporary "solution"(BIG quotes here) but it did not solve the problem at all.

arthur_pryor 11y ago
been lurking here for years. finally created an account just to upvote this.
NovaS1X 11y ago
I disagree partly on a few points and I'll give a short anecdote as example. As an increasingly global conversation on the internet is taking place with people in places and groups that didn't have a place or a voice before we're muddying the waters of stereotypes and accurate attempts of guessing someone's background. Anecdote 1: I have a friend I met online. I've known him for about 6 years. We never talked about our families, shared pictures of each-other, shared real names, or shared anything personally identifiable apart for similar interests and vague references. After about two years of talking to this friend every day, I knew a few things: his family wasn't rich, he lived in a crime filled area Richmond, he smoked weed every day, he loves hip-hop, and he's not a fan of school. Now, most people with their biases and stereotypes would say "oh he's probably a young black male" and they'd have a good chance of being right. Around this time we all started talking about our personal lives. I then find out that this guy is a 25y/o white male studying a masters degree in physics who sports and amazing beard. My initial image of him is gone completely. By anonymizing interests, beliefs, and political standings we can then apply them to anyone of any race of any gender because we don't know the truth. Our guesses could be wrong, and often are, and the ability to stereotype breaks down. Comments could suddenly be from anyone and we are forced to pay attention to the argument and not who's arguing.
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- Frondo 11y ago
  Parent poster wrote, "if I, a Nigerian, want to avoid the bigots and racists online, I can't talk about a lot of stuff." You replied with an anecdote that illustrates how you got someone else's race wrong, but telling the parent poster that you disagree with his personal experience and coping mechanisms? That doesn't sit right with me. I don't think you meant it to sound like "you're wrong about how you've learned to deal with bigots"--which would be a pretty awful thing to tell him!--but it did sound that way. I wonder if there's a way to rephrase your rebuttal with more empathy and understanding.
yarou 11y ago
Why would you care what some anonymous person says about you on the Internet? I've been called sand n---er, paki, etc, but that's just ignorant people being ignorant. I'm sure some of the people I interact with on a daily basis think the same thoughts. But again, it doesn't really affect me. Ironically, the kind of Internet you push for is flawed because it will make everyone self-censor and "doublethink; which is dangerous. We must protect unabridged free speech, even if it is ugly, lest we fall into the trap of an Internet where a lot of people are speaking but are not really saying anything.
h611500 11y ago
It's not anonymity if you have a name attached to your posts. That's pseudonymity. By doing that you have essentially created another identity which can still be linked back to your real identity. If you have true anonymity you can post about your pregnancy and just stop replying to the post chain. Nobody will know your gender in the next post you make.

by smtddr 11y ago

arthur_pryor 11y ago

been lurking here for years. finally created an account just to upvote this.

NovaS1X 11y ago

I disagree partly on a few points and I'll give a short anecdote as example. As an increasingly global conversation on the internet is taking place with people in places and groups that didn't have a place or a voice before we're muddying the waters of stereotypes and accurate attempts of guessing someone's background. Anecdote 1: I have a friend I met online. I've known him for about 6 years. We never talked about our families, shared pictures of each-other, shared real names, or shared anything personally identifiable apart for similar interests and vague references. After about two years of talking to this friend every day, I knew a few things: his family wasn't rich, he lived in a crime filled area Richmond, he smoked weed every day, he loves hip-hop, and he's not a fan of school. Now, most people with their biases and stereotypes would say "oh he's probably a young black male" and they'd have a good chance of being right. Around this time we all started talking about our personal lives. I then find out that this guy is a 25y/o white male studying a masters degree in physics who sports and amazing beard. My initial image of him is gone completely. By anonymizing interests, beliefs, and political standings we can then apply them to anyone of any race of any gender because we don't know the truth. Our guesses could be wrong, and often are, and the ability to stereotype breaks down. Comments could suddenly be from anyone and we are forced to pay attention to the argument and not who's arguing.

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Frondo 11y ago
Parent poster wrote, "if I, a Nigerian, want to avoid the bigots and racists online, I can't talk about a lot of stuff." You replied with an anecdote that illustrates how you got someone else's race wrong, but telling the parent poster that you disagree with his personal experience and coping mechanisms? That doesn't sit right with me. I don't think you meant it to sound like "you're wrong about how you've learned to deal with bigots"--which would be a pretty awful thing to tell him!--but it did sound that way. I wonder if there's a way to rephrase your rebuttal with more empathy and understanding.

yarou 11y ago

Why would you care what some anonymous person says about you on the Internet? I've been called sand n---er, paki, etc, but that's just ignorant people being ignorant. I'm sure some of the people I interact with on a daily basis think the same thoughts. But again, it doesn't really affect me. Ironically, the kind of Internet you push for is flawed because it will make everyone self-censor and "doublethink; which is dangerous. We must protect unabridged free speech, even if it is ugly, lest we fall into the trap of an Internet where a lot of people are speaking but are not really saying anything.

h611500 11y ago

It's not anonymity if you have a name attached to your posts. That's pseudonymity. By doing that you have essentially created another identity which can still be linked back to your real identity. If you have true anonymity you can post about your pregnancy and just stop replying to the post chain. Nobody will know your gender in the next post you make.