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I honestly can't understand what use patterns the article is suggesting. "During these hours, the report argues, the battery could be “dispatched” elsewhere to

by MBlume 11y ago

I honestly can't understand what use patterns the article is suggesting. "During these hours, the report argues, the battery could be “dispatched” elsewhere to helps smooth supply and demand on the grid" Do they actually mean moving the battery, or something else?

maxerickson 11y ago
It's jargon, it just means using the energy, with some implication of centralized management. So as an example, natural gas peak load plants are dispatched when there is a sudden increase in demand.
toomuchtodo 11y ago
Arbitrage. The price of power changes every few minutes (wholesale) to a utility. They shield you from this with flat rates per kwh or tiers. With battery arbitrage, you switch to a time of day metering scheme where you're exposed to dynamic pricing. The benefit, of course, is that you can charge when power is cheap, and run off your battery when power is expensive. A great example: I reside in Illinois for part of the year. My utility provides power from nuclear plants, which cannot be idled. That means, at night, I can get power between midnight and 5am for about 1 cent/kwh. If batteries get cheap enough, cheap power + batteries means I save money. Most electric vehicle charge controllers are already "smart" in this regard, and can charge when power drops below a certain price.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  The only problem with this is that this will be a zero sum game. If peak power consumption drops electric companies will start charging higher rates for off-peak hours or drop the off-peak rate completely. Anything that will eventually lower the revenue of the electrical companies won't really be supported by them, however if they can employ batteries to "flatten" their peaks they might be contempt with keeping the current rates as long as is financially beneficial for them.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    > The only problem with this is that this will be a zero sum game. If peak power consumption drops electric companies will start charging higher rates for off-peak hours or drop the off-peak rate completely. Which will push those who can to local rooftop solar generation. We've already entered what the utilities refer to as a "death spiral" [+]. > Anything that will eventually lower the revenue of the electrical companies won't really be supported by them, however if they can employ batteries to "flatten" their peaks they might be contempt with keeping the current rates as long as is financially beneficial for them. Agree. [+] http://cleantechnica.com/2015/06/11/graph-of-the-day-what-a-utility-death-spiral-looks-like/ http://cleantechnica.com/2015/06/11/graph-of-the-day-what-a-...
    - dogma1138 11y ago
      Solar is still very expensive at around 10K$ an upwards in the US and considerably more expensive in Europe, solar is also not an option for the majority of residents in the big cities where electrical supply is usually a bigger issue. I'm personally not a big believer in residential solar, it can't be as efficient as dedicated solar installations and the cost overhead for so many small scale installations pretty much outweigh the benefits in the long run. I do however believe that many smaller communities should be powered with renewable energy where possible. It can allow you to build much bigger and more efficient installations of wind and solar, won't require you to convert it to high voltage in order to connect it back to the grid/transfer it along large distances and your energy storage is also much easier.
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        > Solar is still very expensive at around 10K$ an upwards in the US and considerably more expensive in Europe, solar is also not an option for the majority of residents in the big cities where electrical supply is usually a bigger issue. It's $3.50/watt fully installed in the US currently. There is a 30% tax credit that expires at the end of 2016 (drops to 10%). That's a great deal for a system that will generate power (warrantied) for 25+ years. If you're in the city or someplace you can't get rooftop solar, you can usually purchase wind or solar specifically from your utility (depending on local utility regulations and laws). > I'm personally not a big believer in residential solar, it can't be as efficient as dedicated solar installations and the cost overhead for so many small scale installations pretty much outweigh the benefits in the long run. I do however believe that many smaller communities should be powered with renewable energy where possible. It can allow you to build much bigger and more efficient installations of wind and solar, won't require you to convert it to high voltage in order to connect it back to the grid/transfer it along large distances and your energy storage is also much easier. Renewables should be installed wherever feasible, whether on rooftops or at utility installations. We need every clean watt we can get.

by MBlume 11y ago

maxerickson 11y ago

It's jargon, it just means using the energy, with some implication of centralized management. So as an example, natural gas peak load plants are dispatched when there is a sudden increase in demand.

toomuchtodo 11y ago

Arbitrage. The price of power changes every few minutes (wholesale) to a utility. They shield you from this with flat rates per kwh or tiers. With battery arbitrage, you switch to a time of day metering scheme where you're exposed to dynamic pricing. The benefit, of course, is that you can charge when power is cheap, and run off your battery when power is expensive. A great example: I reside in Illinois for part of the year. My utility provides power from nuclear plants, which cannot be idled. That means, at night, I can get power between midnight and 5am for about 1 cent/kwh. If batteries get cheap enough, cheap power + batteries means I save money. Most electric vehicle charge controllers are already "smart" in this regard, and can charge when power drops below a certain price.

dogma1138 11y ago
The only problem with this is that this will be a zero sum game. If peak power consumption drops electric companies will start charging higher rates for off-peak hours or drop the off-peak rate completely. Anything that will eventually lower the revenue of the electrical companies won't really be supported by them, however if they can employ batteries to "flatten" their peaks they might be contempt with keeping the current rates as long as is financially beneficial for them.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  > The only problem with this is that this will be a zero sum game. If peak power consumption drops electric companies will start charging higher rates for off-peak hours or drop the off-peak rate completely. Which will push those who can to local rooftop solar generation. We've already entered what the utilities refer to as a "death spiral" [+]. > Anything that will eventually lower the revenue of the electrical companies won't really be supported by them, however if they can employ batteries to "flatten" their peaks they might be contempt with keeping the current rates as long as is financially beneficial for them. Agree. [+] http://cleantechnica.com/2015/06/11/graph-of-the-day-what-a-utility-death-spiral-looks-like/ http://cleantechnica.com/2015/06/11/graph-of-the-day-what-a-...
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    Solar is still very expensive at around 10K$ an upwards in the US and considerably more expensive in Europe, solar is also not an option for the majority of residents in the big cities where electrical supply is usually a bigger issue. I'm personally not a big believer in residential solar, it can't be as efficient as dedicated solar installations and the cost overhead for so many small scale installations pretty much outweigh the benefits in the long run. I do however believe that many smaller communities should be powered with renewable energy where possible. It can allow you to build much bigger and more efficient installations of wind and solar, won't require you to convert it to high voltage in order to connect it back to the grid/transfer it along large distances and your energy storage is also much easier.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      > Solar is still very expensive at around 10K$ an upwards in the US and considerably more expensive in Europe, solar is also not an option for the majority of residents in the big cities where electrical supply is usually a bigger issue. It's $3.50/watt fully installed in the US currently. There is a 30% tax credit that expires at the end of 2016 (drops to 10%). That's a great deal for a system that will generate power (warrantied) for 25+ years. If you're in the city or someplace you can't get rooftop solar, you can usually purchase wind or solar specifically from your utility (depending on local utility regulations and laws). > I'm personally not a big believer in residential solar, it can't be as efficient as dedicated solar installations and the cost overhead for so many small scale installations pretty much outweigh the benefits in the long run. I do however believe that many smaller communities should be powered with renewable energy where possible. It can allow you to build much bigger and more efficient installations of wind and solar, won't require you to convert it to high voltage in order to connect it back to the grid/transfer it along large distances and your energy storage is also much easier. Renewables should be installed wherever feasible, whether on rooftops or at utility installations. We need every clean watt we can get.