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Ah yes, TextMate: the text editor that proves that the patent-pending Duke Nukem Development Model™ need not be reserved for video games.

by gecko 17y ago

icey 17y ago
I am trying to think of a time that a project has gone dark like this to develop the "next awesome version" and succeeded. I can't think of a time where it's worked, but I'm sure there's at least one example of it happening, right?
- teilo 17y ago
  Emacs. Yeah, it was developed open source, but how many people, honestly, paid any attention at all to the trunk builds before the next major release? http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsReleaseDates http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsReleaseDates
  - icey 17y ago
    Taking a long time between versions isn't the same as going completely dark between versions though, is it? I mean, people could see what was going on in emacs as it was being developed if they were curious. And as far as I'm aware, there weren't significant rewrites between versions.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    how many people, honestly, paid any attention at all to the trunk builds before the next major release How many people used the "stable" version while Emacs 23 was being prepared for release? I don't know of anyone; Emacs 23 had too many useful features for anyone to wait. Notice how Emacs users had the option of using an "unstable" version before it was released, whereas Textmate users don't have that option.
- boucher 17y ago
  Delicious Library. Took Shipley over four years to ship version 2, and it was rewritten at least once, and possibly twice, before it ever saw the light of day.
teilo 17y ago
There is a significant difference between a 3D game and a utility, namely, how closely the development cycle must track the platform upon which it is to be released. If the game development cycle is too long, the existing hardware will so far surpass your product's use of said hardware that when you release, your product will just look childish. Not the case with a utility or a programming environment. Witness: I still use vim, even though my laptop has a Core2Duo 2.8Ghz, and dual GPUs. If vim 8.0 took another three years to release, I would not care in the slightest, and would gladly upgrade when it happens.
- silencio 17y ago
  That doesn't mean it still doesn't apply. Mac OS X has seen some major API changes and additions in the past couple major releases (that have all happened since Allan announced his working on TM 2.0), and I can see the DNF fiasco repeat itself here. TextMate 1.x won't become completely and unrunnably obsolete, but redoing major features to take advantage of some shiny new API and therefore pushing back any potential release date? It's the same idea on a longer time scale.
  - Zev 17y ago
    API's don't disappear overnight once they've become deprecated. There are API's that have been deprecated since 10.2 or 10.3 but still work on 10.6, for example.
    - silencio 17y ago
      > TextMate 1.x won't become completely and unrunnably obsolete.. Yes, I've already touched on that. ATSUI, used in TextMate, was deprecated in favor of Core Text back in 10.5 but it still works. My point was that the introduction of Core Text caused Allan to go and presumably use that instead in TM 2.0 to get benefits like, oh, him actually working towards CJK text rendering without resorting to hacks, not that the deprecation of whatever APIs he was using before means TM 1.x is no longer runnable on newer versions of OS X. Not that the DNF vaporware thing was any different, it was a matter of looking obsolete, not a matter of not running at all.

Ah yes, TextMate: the text editor that proves that the patent-pending Duke Nukem Development Model™ need not be reserved for video games.

by gecko 17y ago

Ah yes, TextMate: the text editor that proves that the patent-pending Duke Nukem Development Model™ need not be reserved for video games.

icey 17y ago

I am trying to think of a time that a project has gone dark like this to develop the "next awesome version" and succeeded. I can't think of a time where it's worked, but I'm sure there's at least one example of it happening, right?

teilo 17y ago
Emacs. Yeah, it was developed open source, but how many people, honestly, paid any attention at all to the trunk builds before the next major release? http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsReleaseDates http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsReleaseDates
- icey 17y ago
  Taking a long time between versions isn't the same as going completely dark between versions though, is it? I mean, people could see what was going on in emacs as it was being developed if they were curious. And as far as I'm aware, there weren't significant rewrites between versions.
- jrockway 17y ago
  how many people, honestly, paid any attention at all to the trunk builds before the next major release How many people used the "stable" version while Emacs 23 was being prepared for release? I don't know of anyone; Emacs 23 had too many useful features for anyone to wait. Notice how Emacs users had the option of using an "unstable" version before it was released, whereas Textmate users don't have that option.
boucher 17y ago
Delicious Library. Took Shipley over four years to ship version 2, and it was rewritten at least once, and possibly twice, before it ever saw the light of day.

teilo 17y ago

There is a significant difference between a 3D game and a utility, namely, how closely the development cycle must track the platform upon which it is to be released. If the game development cycle is too long, the existing hardware will so far surpass your product's use of said hardware that when you release, your product will just look childish. Not the case with a utility or a programming environment. Witness: I still use vim, even though my laptop has a Core2Duo 2.8Ghz, and dual GPUs. If vim 8.0 took another three years to release, I would not care in the slightest, and would gladly upgrade when it happens.

silencio 17y ago
That doesn't mean it still doesn't apply. Mac OS X has seen some major API changes and additions in the past couple major releases (that have all happened since Allan announced his working on TM 2.0), and I can see the DNF fiasco repeat itself here. TextMate 1.x won't become completely and unrunnably obsolete, but redoing major features to take advantage of some shiny new API and therefore pushing back any potential release date? It's the same idea on a longer time scale.
- Zev 17y ago
  API's don't disappear overnight once they've become deprecated. There are API's that have been deprecated since 10.2 or 10.3 but still work on 10.6, for example.
  - silencio 17y ago
    > TextMate 1.x won't become completely and unrunnably obsolete.. Yes, I've already touched on that. ATSUI, used in TextMate, was deprecated in favor of Core Text back in 10.5 but it still works. My point was that the introduction of Core Text caused Allan to go and presumably use that instead in TM 2.0 to get benefits like, oh, him actually working towards CJK text rendering without resorting to hacks, not that the deprecation of whatever APIs he was using before means TM 1.x is no longer runnable on newer versions of OS X. Not that the DNF vaporware thing was any different, it was a matter of looking obsolete, not a matter of not running at all.