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> Personal autonomy. Your body, your choice. Except that it's not your body. If you don't get vaccinated, and you get sick, then you infect everyone else. You

by amyjess 11y ago

> Personal autonomy. Your body, your choice. Except that it's not your body. If you don't get vaccinated, and you get sick, then you infect everyone else. You don't have the right to choose to infect other people. Vaccination needs to be mandatory, and if the state has to send agents to burst into people's homes, tie people down, and forcibly administer the vaccinations, then I'm all for it.

ygrechuk 11y ago
I generally agree with LordKano, and in the same positions of having been vaccinated myself and my kids. At the same time I really don't like state-mandated vaccines. For philosophical reasons first of all ("Your body, your choice"). But also for practical, as it presents a great possibility of abuse; as an example impagine corrupt officials mandating unnecessary vaccination of BigPharma's profit. > If you don't get vaccinated, and you get sick, then you infect everyone else. You don't have the right to choose to infect other people. I would NOT be against public schools mandating vaccines in order for children to attend school. Same for places of employment.
- chadgeidel 11y ago
  > it presents a great possibility of abuse; I appreciate your concern, but this is a slippery slope fallacy. It's highly unlikely it would be abused without knowledge, because we currently have a net-good policy that is being "debated" at all levels today. I can't imagine a net-neutral or net-evil policy would slip by undetected.
  - GauntletWizard 11y ago
    Slippery slope is not automatically a fallacy. In fact, since this is a political (and more importantly, rhetorical) debate, slippery slope isn't a fallacy at all. It is an argument, carrying some weight or none at all, depending on how it is presented. In light of an article that is precisely about how "Big Pharma" overprescribed drugs to people who didn't need them, suggesting that allowing the government to enforce prescriptions will lead to more corruption and overprescription, this argument should hold a lot of weight. More generally: Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy. It, along with many of it's brothers [1], do nothing to prove a point in a logical debate. They do no represent MUSTs, they represent SHOULD, MAY, and OPTIONAL [2]. These are rhetorical devices that you should use when you are feeling out the scope of the problem and advocating for policy in a political debate. And it can be relevant to call them by name, but dismissing an argument because you can name it is actually illogical. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#Informal_fallacies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#Informal_fal... [2] https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
    - chadgeidel 11y ago
      Point taken. I should not have used that rhetorical device. Thanks for the correction.
tedunangst 11y ago
I'm reminded of Typhoid Mary. "You can't tell me I'm not allowed to be a cook!"
LordKano 11y ago
Except that it's not your body. Of course it is. Do you feel the pain when I get stuck by a needle? If you don't get vaccinated, and you get sick, then you infect everyone else. This is a possibility. Life is risk. You don't have the right to choose to infect other people. That is true. They also have the right to decide for themselves if they want to be vaccinated. As I said, I was vaccinated and I had my children vaccinated. I hope that everyone does. I am opposed to using the coercive force of government to make them do it. Vaccination needs to be mandatory, and if the state has to send agents to burst into people's homes, tie people down, and forcibly administer the vaccinations, then I'm all for it. Should the state be willing to kill people in order to administer vaccines to keep them from getting sick and dying?
- theworstshill 11y ago
  This guy is on the right track. Who downvoted this?

by amyjess 11y ago

ygrechuk 11y ago

I generally agree with LordKano, and in the same positions of having been vaccinated myself and my kids. At the same time I really don't like state-mandated vaccines. For philosophical reasons first of all ("Your body, your choice"). But also for practical, as it presents a great possibility of abuse; as an example impagine corrupt officials mandating unnecessary vaccination of BigPharma's profit. > If you don't get vaccinated, and you get sick, then you infect everyone else. You don't have the right to choose to infect other people. I would NOT be against public schools mandating vaccines in order for children to attend school. Same for places of employment.

chadgeidel 11y ago
> it presents a great possibility of abuse; I appreciate your concern, but this is a slippery slope fallacy. It's highly unlikely it would be abused without knowledge, because we currently have a net-good policy that is being "debated" at all levels today. I can't imagine a net-neutral or net-evil policy would slip by undetected.
- GauntletWizard 11y ago
  Slippery slope is not automatically a fallacy. In fact, since this is a political (and more importantly, rhetorical) debate, slippery slope isn't a fallacy at all. It is an argument, carrying some weight or none at all, depending on how it is presented. In light of an article that is precisely about how "Big Pharma" overprescribed drugs to people who didn't need them, suggesting that allowing the government to enforce prescriptions will lead to more corruption and overprescription, this argument should hold a lot of weight. More generally: Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy. It, along with many of it's brothers [1], do nothing to prove a point in a logical debate. They do no represent MUSTs, they represent SHOULD, MAY, and OPTIONAL [2]. These are rhetorical devices that you should use when you are feeling out the scope of the problem and advocating for policy in a political debate. And it can be relevant to call them by name, but dismissing an argument because you can name it is actually illogical. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#Informal_fallacies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#Informal_fal... [2] https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
  - chadgeidel 11y ago
    Point taken. I should not have used that rhetorical device. Thanks for the correction.

tedunangst 11y ago

I'm reminded of Typhoid Mary. "You can't tell me I'm not allowed to be a cook!"

LordKano 11y ago

Except that it's not your body. Of course it is. Do you feel the pain when I get stuck by a needle? If you don't get vaccinated, and you get sick, then you infect everyone else. This is a possibility. Life is risk. You don't have the right to choose to infect other people. That is true. They also have the right to decide for themselves if they want to be vaccinated. As I said, I was vaccinated and I had my children vaccinated. I hope that everyone does. I am opposed to using the coercive force of government to make them do it. Vaccination needs to be mandatory, and if the state has to send agents to burst into people's homes, tie people down, and forcibly administer the vaccinations, then I'm all for it. Should the state be willing to kill people in order to administer vaccines to keep them from getting sick and dying?

theworstshill 11y ago
This guy is on the right track. Who downvoted this?