8 ms·

This! At least from the initial look and spec it looks like they did a lot of the things right and put effort in making this nice. Yes there are things that may

by tmd83 11y ago

This! At least from the initial look and spec it looks like they did a lot of the things right and put effort in making this nice. Yes there are things that maybe I can get by without but the basics looks fantastic. You don't chip $50 off a premium laptop and make it crappy. OEM just keeps making too many model at every price point .. at every 20 dollars it feels like. While I hate the almost singular choice for OsX .. both for Windows and Android I think there is just too many price points and when you try to reduce by 5-10-20 dollar you skip things that seems not so essentially but the degradation in experience is much more than the money saved. What I really hope from this is that it shows the OEM that there are enough interest in quality product and also let them know what are some of the things that people really care about like the build quality, nice keyboard/touchpad etc. Beyond this particular laptop my real wish is that it motivates and gives confidence to the windows OEM. We really do need some good windows laptop even if to just to run linux :).

hkmurakami 11y ago
This is what I was hopeful for when VAIO was spun off of SONY last year. When I saw the "machined magnesium body" line in their video [1] I was immediately reminded of the VAIO laptops that had beautiful material way back in the 90's. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVfOe5mFbAE&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVfOe5mFbAE&feature=youtu.be
- cm2187 11y ago
  I still miss the z series... But the z series had ethernet ports. This surface thing is useless to me.
  - soapdog 11y ago
    I use a surface and I have an ethernet to USB adapter, works pretty well.
    - cm2187 11y ago
      But then you loose the USB port. But the main problem of USB adapters is that they don't like being unplugged and plugged back which happens quite frequently with a laptop. With a real port connectivity is pretty much instantaneous. I used USB adapters for a while on a MacBook pro and came to the conclusion that I will never ever buy a laptop without ethernet ports. What I wonder is why they don't come up with a mini-ethernet port format? Ethernet ports aren't exactly high tech.
      - jaytagdamian 11y ago
        Remember these? http://www.recycledgoods.com/media/extendware/ewimageopt/media/inline/74/d/xircom-cbem56g-100-cardbus-ethernet-10-100-modem-56-w-dongle-bba.jpg http://www.recycledgoods.com/media/extendware/ewimageopt/med... Never quite sure why the small connector didn't become the standard for laptops.
        cm2187 11y ago
        I think that was before my time. All it would take is a different plastic socket format. The top 10 laptop manufacturers could agree on a standard in a 10 minutes conference call.
        analognoise 11y ago
        Real products don't work like fads in Javascript.
        csixty4 11y ago
        The 15-pin I/O connector for ethernet was part of the PCMCIA CardBus standard, which is why dongles could be shared between cards. After PCMCIA picked up speed, a "non-practicing entity" pulled a patent out of their portfolio for a "programmable connector". Because the PCMCIA ethernet card itself plugged into the computer and presented a different connector to the outside world, the NPE was able to sue and/or settle with something like 90% of the companies making PCMCIA ethernet cards & modems. 3COM had a cool connector on some of their cards called XJACK. It was a little tray you slid out of the card. It had a hole that your RJ-45 plug slid into and some pins. It would certainly make for thinner devices today, but the connectors broke pretty easily and you ended up with an ethernet cable sticking out at a weird angle. Before everybody standardized on RJ-45, there was a standard called AUI which used a 15-pin D connector. Your network card would have an AUI connector and you'd buy an adapter for whatever kind of network you needed to attach to. Apple had their AAUI which was much, much smaller (about the size of 2 mini Display Ports?). But I think licensing kept that from taking off as a standard.
  - nothrabannosir 11y ago
    You'll probably be best served by the (ugliest ever) "surface dock." See the same page.
  - lhl 11y ago
    You can order a new Z here: http://us.vaio.com/ http://us.vaio.com/ As a pleasant surprise, it still has a built-in RJ45.
    - vxNsr 11y ago
      At $3000 I expect a dedicated graphics option...
  - listic 11y ago
    It has, in the docking station; which makes sense to me.
- gozo 11y ago
  "Fun fact": Steve Jobs is said to have admired Sony [0] and things like the MacBook Air is presumably inspired by the Sony VAIO X505 [1]. [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+admiration+for+sony https://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+admiration+for+so... [1] http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/6/5385716/sony-vaio-iconic-pcs-photo-essay#photo-5149539-10 http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/6/5385716/sony-vaio-iconic-pc...
  - eggy 11y ago
    I bought a Sony Vaio 15 Flip ($1200)[1] new vs. a MBP, Surface Pro 3 or Wacom Cintiq (needs a computer) for drawing. Artists are still looking to buy them at $1400 to $1800. It has a large drawings surface vs Surface Pro 3, a dedicated GPU, lots of ports, and a great screen. It runs my CAD programs (Rhino, MOI and AutoCAD Fusion) sufficiently for an i5-based notebook. It has some other great screen positions for just browsing. It a very sleek and well-designed unit. I can see how Jobs would admire them or be inspired by their innovative designs. Just look at the PSP vs. the Nintendo Gameboy physical design. I did consider an Apple Modbook [2], but it was too blocky, expensive, and going to a third-party for a modded Macbook didn't feel right, although they are Apple-endorsed and sponsored now. [1] http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2425731,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2425731,00.asp [2] http://www.modbook.com/ http://www.modbook.com/
  - marpstar 11y ago
    I worked at Geek Squad in the mid 2000s and we had one regular customer who had one of those X505. Its thinness and its lightness were unbelievable back then.
  - simonh 11y ago
    Sony actually manufactured the early Powerbooks under contract.
    - georgechen 11y ago
      That's correct. The Powerbook 100.
wahsd 11y ago
>You don't chip $50 off a premium laptop and make it crappy I got that kind of feeling though when he was talking about both the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book. The SP4 is thicker than it could be because you wanted to add a full USB-A??? WHY?? and there are USB-A and not USB-C and a full SD slot on the Book ... WHY??? It made me ill to see them add that shit. It felt like typical MS snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Full SD?? Not micro SD??? Not mini SD??? Why again??? sigh
- lqdc13 11y ago
  Full SD makes complete sense. Many cameras use an SD card. Now you need a separate adapter to carry around with your laptop instead of a nice built-in SD card reader.
  - csallen 11y ago
    I'd bet an extremely high (and growing) percentage of people never connect a digital camera to their computers, and those that do probably do so rarely. So do the benefits here justify the costs?
    - lqdc13 11y ago
      How do people transfer photos from digital cameras then? Many cameras don't have built in USB/networking of any kind.
      - aianus 11y ago
        Most people don't own digital cameras any more, they just use their smartphones (which have USB/networking).
        ekianjo 11y ago
        LOL, your comment is quite funny. This may be true for "most hipsters that don't care about photography", but in reality there are still many folks using regular mirrorless camera or even better, full frame DSLR because their price has dropped so much in the past 3 years. And these folks also happen to be the ones looking for premium laptop options in order to get data transferred fast (wifi is too slow for RAWs) and work on their pictures before publishing them. It's not because you dont have a use for it that everyone out there is just like you.
danudey 11y ago
And every price point has one thing you want that the other ones don't have, so you end up sophie's choice-ing your way through Dell's website. And then you go from their Home to their Business site and the prices, features, bundles, and add-ons are different for the same hardware. It's the same reason Google started making Nexus phones: so that someone, somewhere, would make a good Android phone without messing something up.
- tmd83 11y ago
  Exactly. I mean there are basic things for which you shouldn't have to hunt models. Anything with the basic size, shape and weight should have the standard ports and connectors I am guessing they are cheap enough. Having to shop for a different line of laptop for want of 2 USB 3 port is ridiculous. This is a made up example but you get the meaning. What I think can be reasonable price points for laptop Basic build vs. premium construction (Non-plastic super rigid maybe) Weight (regular vs ultra light) Ports, keyboard, touchpad should be standard I think. Maybe premium ones might have the latest techs but nothing should be atrocious. The next bit should be priced based off whats chosen but really most cpu, ram, storage, display should be available on all model. You might restrict the premium to some high end configuration but even on a non-premium build you should be able to get high end display for most part. What you shouldn't end up is having a $1400 vs. $1500 line of products where the $1400 has got better ports or display option then the $1500 laptop.
- lelandbatey 11y ago
  Something I do want to note: everyone seems to only ever look at two, maybe three companies for "serious" notebooks: Dell, Lenovo, and (maybe) HP. However, I've found that by far the best company to buy laptops from is Asus. The latest example of this I've seen is the Asus Zenbook UX305LA. The specs are: 8GB Ram 256 SSD Intel Core i5-5200U 1080p IPS display A keyboard devoid of obviously poor layout[0] Nice large multi-touch trackpad[0] Weighs 2.86 lbs (1.29 kg) 8+ hours of battery Full out of the box Linux compatibility --------------------- Price: $750 It seems to have an absolutely killer set of features at a great price point, and this seems to be a trend with Asus. My current laptop is an Asus TP300LA, with nearly the same specs (though thicker and heavier), and it sold at the same ~$700 price point two years ago. I highly recommend people look to Asus for their standard "programmer machines". [0] - http://cuttingedgenotebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/ASUS-Zenbook-UX305LA-AB51-Keyboard.jpg http://cuttingedgenotebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/AS...
baddox 11y ago
> While I hate the almost singular choice for OsX I actually find that this is less true now, and I miss when it was more true. There are a lot of choices now, not just at price points, but at form factors. Do I get a 13" MacBook Air, a 13" MacBook Pro Retina, a 12" MacBook, or the upcoming 12.9" iPad Pro?
- code_sterling 11y ago
  I was just speaking to one of my devs about this today. Steve Jobs' turned Apple around by removing choice. You had a Consumer and Pro category and they each had a laptop and a desktop. The new Apple is slowly drifting into Dell territory, where I have too many options. It becomes the Netflix problem where I find myself having too many options, so I browse the offerings, and before I decide, fall asleep.
  - simonh 11y ago
    I think the problem is they're in a transitional phase right now. Retina displays aren't ubiquitous yet and are introducing an extra axis of differentiation on the one hand, while the new ultralight Macbook is the first example of a step change in form factors. They're a long way from PC manufacturers where the main distinction between two models can be as trivial as the audio chip and speaker specs.
  - wiredfool 11y ago
    Steve Jobs got rid of a lot of stupid choices in the Mac line, but he was not anti choice. At one point, the ipod lineup went from about $50 to $500 in $25-$50 increments. Every little increment was just that much better, in a way that made it very easy to spend a few more bucks. This one has more space, that one is a little bigger and has a screen, that one is a ton bigger an can play videos, this one has more storage than you'd ever imagine. The ios lineup looked like that a few years back, between the ipod Touch, carrier subsidies for phones, and the new at the time ipads. The declining subsidies has cut off the 0$ upfront low end, but they're extending up with the pro. My feeling on the laptops is that the Air is not long for this world (which sucks, cause I really like mine), and the model confusion now is essentially a transition state because they can't make all the engineering happen in one year. At some point, Apple is going to manage to make all of their laptops essentially iPads of different sizes, with attached keyboards. (Why they can't do a bigger one with a real keyboard, days of battery life, and a monster processor is left to the imagination)
mattlutze 11y ago
Microsoft has done really, really well with the Surface tablets, from what all my Dev Ops and Systems friends tell me. I'm still a bit wary of the detachable keyboard form factor but hey, it would be cool to see them get another win with the Surface Book.

by tmd83 11y ago

hkmurakami 11y ago

This is what I was hopeful for when VAIO was spun off of SONY last year. When I saw the "machined magnesium body" line in their video [1] I was immediately reminded of the VAIO laptops that had beautiful material way back in the 90's. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVfOe5mFbAE&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVfOe5mFbAE&feature=youtu.be

cm2187 11y ago
I still miss the z series... But the z series had ethernet ports. This surface thing is useless to me.
- soapdog 11y ago
  I use a surface and I have an ethernet to USB adapter, works pretty well.
  - cm2187 11y ago
    But then you loose the USB port. But the main problem of USB adapters is that they don't like being unplugged and plugged back which happens quite frequently with a laptop. With a real port connectivity is pretty much instantaneous. I used USB adapters for a while on a MacBook pro and came to the conclusion that I will never ever buy a laptop without ethernet ports. What I wonder is why they don't come up with a mini-ethernet port format? Ethernet ports aren't exactly high tech.
    - jaytagdamian 11y ago
      Remember these? http://www.recycledgoods.com/media/extendware/ewimageopt/media/inline/74/d/xircom-cbem56g-100-cardbus-ethernet-10-100-modem-56-w-dongle-bba.jpg http://www.recycledgoods.com/media/extendware/ewimageopt/med... Never quite sure why the small connector didn't become the standard for laptops.
      - cm2187 11y ago
        I think that was before my time. All it would take is a different plastic socket format. The top 10 laptop manufacturers could agree on a standard in a 10 minutes conference call.
        analognoise 11y ago
        Real products don't work like fads in Javascript.
      - csixty4 11y ago
        The 15-pin I/O connector for ethernet was part of the PCMCIA CardBus standard, which is why dongles could be shared between cards. After PCMCIA picked up speed, a "non-practicing entity" pulled a patent out of their portfolio for a "programmable connector". Because the PCMCIA ethernet card itself plugged into the computer and presented a different connector to the outside world, the NPE was able to sue and/or settle with something like 90% of the companies making PCMCIA ethernet cards & modems. 3COM had a cool connector on some of their cards called XJACK. It was a little tray you slid out of the card. It had a hole that your RJ-45 plug slid into and some pins. It would certainly make for thinner devices today, but the connectors broke pretty easily and you ended up with an ethernet cable sticking out at a weird angle. Before everybody standardized on RJ-45, there was a standard called AUI which used a 15-pin D connector. Your network card would have an AUI connector and you'd buy an adapter for whatever kind of network you needed to attach to. Apple had their AAUI which was much, much smaller (about the size of 2 mini Display Ports?). But I think licensing kept that from taking off as a standard.
- nothrabannosir 11y ago
  You'll probably be best served by the (ugliest ever) "surface dock." See the same page.
- lhl 11y ago
  You can order a new Z here: http://us.vaio.com/ http://us.vaio.com/ As a pleasant surprise, it still has a built-in RJ45.
  - vxNsr 11y ago
    At $3000 I expect a dedicated graphics option...
- listic 11y ago
  It has, in the docking station; which makes sense to me.
gozo 11y ago
"Fun fact": Steve Jobs is said to have admired Sony [0] and things like the MacBook Air is presumably inspired by the Sony VAIO X505 [1]. [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+admiration+for+sony https://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+admiration+for+so... [1] http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/6/5385716/sony-vaio-iconic-pcs-photo-essay#photo-5149539-10 http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/6/5385716/sony-vaio-iconic-pc...
- eggy 11y ago
  I bought a Sony Vaio 15 Flip ($1200)[1] new vs. a MBP, Surface Pro 3 or Wacom Cintiq (needs a computer) for drawing. Artists are still looking to buy them at $1400 to $1800. It has a large drawings surface vs Surface Pro 3, a dedicated GPU, lots of ports, and a great screen. It runs my CAD programs (Rhino, MOI and AutoCAD Fusion) sufficiently for an i5-based notebook. It has some other great screen positions for just browsing. It a very sleek and well-designed unit. I can see how Jobs would admire them or be inspired by their innovative designs. Just look at the PSP vs. the Nintendo Gameboy physical design. I did consider an Apple Modbook [2], but it was too blocky, expensive, and going to a third-party for a modded Macbook didn't feel right, although they are Apple-endorsed and sponsored now. [1] http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2425731,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2425731,00.asp [2] http://www.modbook.com/ http://www.modbook.com/
- marpstar 11y ago
  I worked at Geek Squad in the mid 2000s and we had one regular customer who had one of those X505. Its thinness and its lightness were unbelievable back then.
- simonh 11y ago
  Sony actually manufactured the early Powerbooks under contract.
  - georgechen 11y ago
    That's correct. The Powerbook 100.

wahsd 11y ago

>You don't chip $50 off a premium laptop and make it crappy I got that kind of feeling though when he was talking about both the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book. The SP4 is thicker than it could be because you wanted to add a full USB-A??? WHY?? and there are USB-A and not USB-C and a full SD slot on the Book ... WHY??? It made me ill to see them add that shit. It felt like typical MS snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Full SD?? Not micro SD??? Not mini SD??? Why again??? sigh

lqdc13 11y ago
Full SD makes complete sense. Many cameras use an SD card. Now you need a separate adapter to carry around with your laptop instead of a nice built-in SD card reader.
- csallen 11y ago
  I'd bet an extremely high (and growing) percentage of people never connect a digital camera to their computers, and those that do probably do so rarely. So do the benefits here justify the costs?
  - lqdc13 11y ago
    How do people transfer photos from digital cameras then? Many cameras don't have built in USB/networking of any kind.
    - aianus 11y ago
      Most people don't own digital cameras any more, they just use their smartphones (which have USB/networking).
      - ekianjo 11y ago
        LOL, your comment is quite funny. This may be true for "most hipsters that don't care about photography", but in reality there are still many folks using regular mirrorless camera or even better, full frame DSLR because their price has dropped so much in the past 3 years. And these folks also happen to be the ones looking for premium laptop options in order to get data transferred fast (wifi is too slow for RAWs) and work on their pictures before publishing them. It's not because you dont have a use for it that everyone out there is just like you.

danudey 11y ago

And every price point has one thing you want that the other ones don't have, so you end up sophie's choice-ing your way through Dell's website. And then you go from their Home to their Business site and the prices, features, bundles, and add-ons are different for the same hardware. It's the same reason Google started making Nexus phones: so that someone, somewhere, would make a good Android phone without messing something up.

tmd83 11y ago
Exactly. I mean there are basic things for which you shouldn't have to hunt models. Anything with the basic size, shape and weight should have the standard ports and connectors I am guessing they are cheap enough. Having to shop for a different line of laptop for want of 2 USB 3 port is ridiculous. This is a made up example but you get the meaning. What I think can be reasonable price points for laptop Basic build vs. premium construction (Non-plastic super rigid maybe) Weight (regular vs ultra light) Ports, keyboard, touchpad should be standard I think. Maybe premium ones might have the latest techs but nothing should be atrocious. The next bit should be priced based off whats chosen but really most cpu, ram, storage, display should be available on all model. You might restrict the premium to some high end configuration but even on a non-premium build you should be able to get high end display for most part. What you shouldn't end up is having a $1400 vs. $1500 line of products where the $1400 has got better ports or display option then the $1500 laptop.
lelandbatey 11y ago
Something I do want to note: everyone seems to only ever look at two, maybe three companies for "serious" notebooks: Dell, Lenovo, and (maybe) HP. However, I've found that by far the best company to buy laptops from is Asus. The latest example of this I've seen is the Asus Zenbook UX305LA. The specs are: 8GB Ram 256 SSD Intel Core i5-5200U 1080p IPS display A keyboard devoid of obviously poor layout[0] Nice large multi-touch trackpad[0] Weighs 2.86 lbs (1.29 kg) 8+ hours of battery Full out of the box Linux compatibility --------------------- Price: $750 It seems to have an absolutely killer set of features at a great price point, and this seems to be a trend with Asus. My current laptop is an Asus TP300LA, with nearly the same specs (though thicker and heavier), and it sold at the same ~$700 price point two years ago. I highly recommend people look to Asus for their standard "programmer machines". [0] - http://cuttingedgenotebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/ASUS-Zenbook-UX305LA-AB51-Keyboard.jpg http://cuttingedgenotebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/AS...

baddox 11y ago

> While I hate the almost singular choice for OsX I actually find that this is less true now, and I miss when it was more true. There are a lot of choices now, not just at price points, but at form factors. Do I get a 13" MacBook Air, a 13" MacBook Pro Retina, a 12" MacBook, or the upcoming 12.9" iPad Pro?

code_sterling 11y ago
I was just speaking to one of my devs about this today. Steve Jobs' turned Apple around by removing choice. You had a Consumer and Pro category and they each had a laptop and a desktop. The new Apple is slowly drifting into Dell territory, where I have too many options. It becomes the Netflix problem where I find myself having too many options, so I browse the offerings, and before I decide, fall asleep.
- simonh 11y ago
  I think the problem is they're in a transitional phase right now. Retina displays aren't ubiquitous yet and are introducing an extra axis of differentiation on the one hand, while the new ultralight Macbook is the first example of a step change in form factors. They're a long way from PC manufacturers where the main distinction between two models can be as trivial as the audio chip and speaker specs.
- wiredfool 11y ago
  Steve Jobs got rid of a lot of stupid choices in the Mac line, but he was not anti choice. At one point, the ipod lineup went from about $50 to $500 in $25-$50 increments. Every little increment was just that much better, in a way that made it very easy to spend a few more bucks. This one has more space, that one is a little bigger and has a screen, that one is a ton bigger an can play videos, this one has more storage than you'd ever imagine. The ios lineup looked like that a few years back, between the ipod Touch, carrier subsidies for phones, and the new at the time ipads. The declining subsidies has cut off the 0$ upfront low end, but they're extending up with the pro. My feeling on the laptops is that the Air is not long for this world (which sucks, cause I really like mine), and the model confusion now is essentially a transition state because they can't make all the engineering happen in one year. At some point, Apple is going to manage to make all of their laptops essentially iPads of different sizes, with attached keyboards. (Why they can't do a bigger one with a real keyboard, days of battery life, and a monster processor is left to the imagination)

mattlutze 11y ago

Microsoft has done really, really well with the Surface tablets, from what all my Dev Ops and Systems friends tell me. I'm still a bit wary of the detachable keyboard form factor but hey, it would be cool to see them get another win with the Surface Book.