4 ms·

I'm not crazy about paying extra for the tablet capability and hinge as I'll only ever use it in laptop mode, also curious that there's no USB-C port. However,

by bitsoda 11y ago

I'm not crazy about paying extra for the tablet capability and hinge as I'll only ever use it in laptop mode, also curious that there's no USB-C port. However, I'm glad Microsoft is showing its OEMs what a proper Windows laptop should be. The OEMs have been shitting the bed on this for years.

mizzao 11y ago
I don't know about that, I think you should give the tablet mode a try before you speculate about what it can and can't do. I use my SP2 a lot with the Pen and OneNote, which provides automatically digitized handwriting that is viewable and searchable from any computer. It's a pretty killer app but I would probably still be using pen and paper notebooks before someone integrated a screen and highly accurate pen in one device. You may find some uses for the tablet that you never imagined before.
- hackuser 11y ago
  Can OneNote data be exported to some open, editable format? I like the idea of OneNote's functionality, but I worry about having my data trapped in that application.
  - WorldMaker 11y ago
    It's an Open Specification file format, at least: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd924743(v=office.12).aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd924743(v=office.1...
  - blumkvist 11y ago
    .docx, .xps, .pdf
    - awa 11y ago
      There's also an api you can use to pull data out.
    - hackuser 11y ago
      I'm hoping to find something editable. If the document is complex, with multimedia, are the .docx exports reasonably functional? Some conversions to .docx and some multimedia content in that format can be unstable.
      - NeutronBoy 11y ago
        Can you suggest a commonly used format that would allow complex multimedia editing like you're suggesting?
        hackuser 11y ago
        Maybe a web CMS like WordPress or a wiki platform, but nothing that is stored in a single file. It seems to me to be a big hole in available technology. Why in 2015 can't I easily create a document with multiple videos, markup, etc. in it?
  - mcgannon2007 11y ago
    Yeah. PDF and XPS are two that I know for sure.
freehunter 11y ago
The problem is, no one has really come up with an answer for the previous Surface machines Microsoft has put out. The Yoga, XPS, and whatever that newer Asus is are nice, but still not a perfect product start to finish. The OEMs still are not getting it.
IkmoIkmo 11y ago
Well ignoring the software, it looks like the specs beat similarly priced Windows Laptops and Macs, so you're probably not going to pay extra, if you do (say compared to a solid Dell XPS 13 2015 which has different price ranges) it won't be much. Either way, while I appreciate some people will never use tablet form factors much, I was personally pleasantly surprised by the form factor despite being a guy who always built his own PCs, barely used laptops and didn't care for any mobility in my computer/device usage at home or at the office (even keeping my laptop almost permanently docked), I now take my tablet to the couch quite a lot to read, play some chess, watch some video. I think you'd be surprised to use it as a tablet but that's just a generalisation, perhaps you are an exception. The lack of USB-C surprised me a bit, too, especially as they said 'we only stopped going thinner because we wanted to fit USB', i.e. they're claiming they could go even thinner without compromising anything except losing USB, which is where USB-C would've done the trick. Anyway I probably would've gone USB myself, too, there's just too much stuff out there for existing laptops using USB. But instead of the charger, why not offer USB-C as a charger, alongside the regular USB ports? The charger could then connect to a new docking station that'd give you both charging as well peripherals like a monitor, mouse and keyboard office setup. That way you could push USB-C forward, create an easy charging and docking setup, maintain the old USB ports this generation (thereby not excluding anyone), while also facilitating those who buy new USB-C peripherals because they actually work on the Surface Book, making a full change to USB-C in the future (Surface Book 2 or 3) easier, which would then allow an even thinner device. I mean I get they built a cool charger and docking solution and it sucks to ditch that but I don't see the advantage over USB-C.
- gcb0 11y ago
  i will take regular usb over usb-c for the next five years, thank you.
rbanffy 11y ago
That hinge will not last 10 minutes in my backpack. Or, if the hinge survives, either the base-keyboard or the display-motherboard will bend enough to break whatever is inside them.

by bitsoda 11y ago

mizzao 11y ago

I don't know about that, I think you should give the tablet mode a try before you speculate about what it can and can't do. I use my SP2 a lot with the Pen and OneNote, which provides automatically digitized handwriting that is viewable and searchable from any computer. It's a pretty killer app but I would probably still be using pen and paper notebooks before someone integrated a screen and highly accurate pen in one device. You may find some uses for the tablet that you never imagined before.

hackuser 11y ago
Can OneNote data be exported to some open, editable format? I like the idea of OneNote's functionality, but I worry about having my data trapped in that application.
- WorldMaker 11y ago
  It's an Open Specification file format, at least: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd924743(v=office.12).aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd924743(v=office.1...
- blumkvist 11y ago
  .docx, .xps, .pdf
  - awa 11y ago
    There's also an api you can use to pull data out.
  - hackuser 11y ago
    I'm hoping to find something editable. If the document is complex, with multimedia, are the .docx exports reasonably functional? Some conversions to .docx and some multimedia content in that format can be unstable.
    - NeutronBoy 11y ago
      Can you suggest a commonly used format that would allow complex multimedia editing like you're suggesting?
      - hackuser 11y ago
        Maybe a web CMS like WordPress or a wiki platform, but nothing that is stored in a single file. It seems to me to be a big hole in available technology. Why in 2015 can't I easily create a document with multiple videos, markup, etc. in it?
- mcgannon2007 11y ago
  Yeah. PDF and XPS are two that I know for sure.

freehunter 11y ago

The problem is, no one has really come up with an answer for the previous Surface machines Microsoft has put out. The Yoga, XPS, and whatever that newer Asus is are nice, but still not a perfect product start to finish. The OEMs still are not getting it.

IkmoIkmo 11y ago

Well ignoring the software, it looks like the specs beat similarly priced Windows Laptops and Macs, so you're probably not going to pay extra, if you do (say compared to a solid Dell XPS 13 2015 which has different price ranges) it won't be much. Either way, while I appreciate some people will never use tablet form factors much, I was personally pleasantly surprised by the form factor despite being a guy who always built his own PCs, barely used laptops and didn't care for any mobility in my computer/device usage at home or at the office (even keeping my laptop almost permanently docked), I now take my tablet to the couch quite a lot to read, play some chess, watch some video. I think you'd be surprised to use it as a tablet but that's just a generalisation, perhaps you are an exception. The lack of USB-C surprised me a bit, too, especially as they said 'we only stopped going thinner because we wanted to fit USB', i.e. they're claiming they could go even thinner without compromising anything except losing USB, which is where USB-C would've done the trick. Anyway I probably would've gone USB myself, too, there's just too much stuff out there for existing laptops using USB. But instead of the charger, why not offer USB-C as a charger, alongside the regular USB ports? The charger could then connect to a new docking station that'd give you both charging as well peripherals like a monitor, mouse and keyboard office setup. That way you could push USB-C forward, create an easy charging and docking setup, maintain the old USB ports this generation (thereby not excluding anyone), while also facilitating those who buy new USB-C peripherals because they actually work on the Surface Book, making a full change to USB-C in the future (Surface Book 2 or 3) easier, which would then allow an even thinner device. I mean I get they built a cool charger and docking solution and it sucks to ditch that but I don't see the advantage over USB-C.

gcb0 11y ago
i will take regular usb over usb-c for the next five years, thank you.

rbanffy 11y ago

That hinge will not last 10 minutes in my backpack. Or, if the hinge survives, either the base-keyboard or the display-motherboard will bend enough to break whatever is inside them.