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Do you have personal experience with mechanical engineering projects that suggests that most work best with large, lowly-paid design teams using management-frie

by jmatt 17y ago

Do you have personal experience with mechanical engineering projects that suggests that most work best with large, lowly-paid design teams using management-friendly technology, or are you just assuming that they would? Yeah I think they work differently in general. From my experience they do not benefit from iterative development the same way we do. They do but they iterate when solving the problem, usually on paper. If they make a design mistake and it's in production or prototype phase it's much more costly to address. And because of this development cycles are longer and a lot more time is spent upfront. I've watched and assisted mechanical engineers that spent days working out the math on the reliability of a class of lasers (and belts, motors, fans) subjected to sitting in a warehouse, followed by periodic motion and change in atmospheric conditions then launched (missile launch or space launch). After the analysis was complete I could code up the math in a matter of minutes. Then expose it to all sorts of boundary cases and add it into a mathematical model of the entire system. Sometimes, at this point, it would go back to analysis to address some new found issues. I have great respect for such engineers. Solving real life problems, like this, thoroughly is worlds away from what most programmers enjoy - creating. EDITED: Clarifications ~

zb 17y ago
They do but they iterate when solving the problem, usually on paper. If they make a design mistake and it's in production or prototype phase it's much more costly to address. And because of this development cycles are longer and a lot more time is spent upfront. This I agree with. Most engineers would kill to have the kind of feedback cycle that we have. (Disclaimer: my experience, such as it is, is with electrical rather than mechanical engineering.) Solving real life problems, like this, thoroughly is worlds away from what most programmers enjoy - creating. This I disagree with. Of course (mechanical) engineers enjoy creating - for example, read Florman's Existential Pleasures of Engineering.
- bediger 17y ago
  I worked in the US aerospace engineer as a stress analyst: I can confirm that bit about feedback cycles. For missiles, the feedback cycle is years.
yannis 17y ago
Yeah I think they work differently in general. From my experience they do not benefit from iterative development the same way we do. They do but they iterate when solving the problem, usually on paper. This is partly true in my experience and you will struggle to find a Mechanical Engineer that doesn't know what Kaizen is. With engineering iterating is expensive so iteration normally would happen at design stage. However, when it comes to Construction there are different levels of iteration, for example the Consultant will produce a set of specs and drawings but is up to the specialists to produce the detail studies and shop drawings.They will also spent months with mock-ups in order to confirm compliance with requirements. However, I think every Engineering discipline (and I include Software Engineering here) can learn a lesson or two from Sanitary Engineers:) Systems produced by Drainage Engineers virtually outlive the buildings they are installed, large part of such systems are standardized (use your standard libraries). They run for almost ever and anywhere (ie, quality assurance brings reliability), they require almost no maintenenace (minimize bugs). They have very well defined objectives (no feature creep). If they don't perform well they stink so someone notices and does something about it! They employ 'set of primitives or principles' like gravity that always works, they are simple and construction can be delegated to cheaper labour (outsourcing). It is not a very glamorous field but civilization progressed when this field progressed (social responsibility). They are not expensive to design and produce. They use standard details (ie DRY principle) and I have seen .. a lot of these Sanitary Engineers debating if their discipline is ... art, engineering or science. Rings a bell? Mechanical Engineering like IT - should be IE Information Engineering:) - has is own disasters and Management problems. It is a very creative field and the only unfortunate thing is that it does not benefit from - open source. In this respect anyone in Software Engineering, should count themselves lucky! Qualifier I hold a PhD in Mechanical Engineering
vijayr 17y ago
Yeah I think they work differently in general. From my experience they do not benefit from iterative development the same way we do. They do but they iterate when solving the problem, usually on paper. Yup, I've seen it too, from my experience. I was once writing some desktop engineering apps, to help mechanical engineers / designers do analysis on materials etc. They spend enormous amount of time doing iterations/studies on paper. It is worth it, because it usually saves lots of money and time down the road. They don't have the luxury that software developers have.

by jmatt 17y ago

zb 17y ago

They do but they iterate when solving the problem, usually on paper. If they make a design mistake and it's in production or prototype phase it's much more costly to address. And because of this development cycles are longer and a lot more time is spent upfront. This I agree with. Most engineers would kill to have the kind of feedback cycle that we have. (Disclaimer: my experience, such as it is, is with electrical rather than mechanical engineering.) Solving real life problems, like this, thoroughly is worlds away from what most programmers enjoy - creating. This I disagree with. Of course (mechanical) engineers enjoy creating - for example, read Florman's Existential Pleasures of Engineering.

bediger 17y ago
I worked in the US aerospace engineer as a stress analyst: I can confirm that bit about feedback cycles. For missiles, the feedback cycle is years.

yannis 17y ago

Yeah I think they work differently in general. From my experience they do not benefit from iterative development the same way we do. They do but they iterate when solving the problem, usually on paper. This is partly true in my experience and you will struggle to find a Mechanical Engineer that doesn't know what Kaizen is. With engineering iterating is expensive so iteration normally would happen at design stage. However, when it comes to Construction there are different levels of iteration, for example the Consultant will produce a set of specs and drawings but is up to the specialists to produce the detail studies and shop drawings.They will also spent months with mock-ups in order to confirm compliance with requirements. However, I think every Engineering discipline (and I include Software Engineering here) can learn a lesson or two from Sanitary Engineers:) Systems produced by Drainage Engineers virtually outlive the buildings they are installed, large part of such systems are standardized (use your standard libraries). They run for almost ever and anywhere (ie, quality assurance brings reliability), they require almost no maintenenace (minimize bugs). They have very well defined objectives (no feature creep). If they don't perform well they stink so someone notices and does something about it! They employ 'set of primitives or principles' like gravity that always works, they are simple and construction can be delegated to cheaper labour (outsourcing). It is not a very glamorous field but civilization progressed when this field progressed (social responsibility). They are not expensive to design and produce. They use standard details (ie DRY principle) and I have seen .. a lot of these Sanitary Engineers debating if their discipline is ... art, engineering or science. Rings a bell? Mechanical Engineering like IT - should be IE Information Engineering:) - has is own disasters and Management problems. It is a very creative field and the only unfortunate thing is that it does not benefit from - open source. In this respect anyone in Software Engineering, should count themselves lucky! Qualifier I hold a PhD in Mechanical Engineering

vijayr 17y ago

Yeah I think they work differently in general. From my experience they do not benefit from iterative development the same way we do. They do but they iterate when solving the problem, usually on paper. Yup, I've seen it too, from my experience. I was once writing some desktop engineering apps, to help mechanical engineers / designers do analysis on materials etc. They spend enormous amount of time doing iterations/studies on paper. It is worth it, because it usually saves lots of money and time down the road. They don't have the luxury that software developers have.