4 ms·

It's a false dichotomy. You can give honest reviews and tell people they're wasting their time without resorting to "Shut up, Mauro. And I don't _ever_ want to

by coldpie 11y ago

It's a false dichotomy. You can give honest reviews and tell people they're wasting their time without resorting to "Shut up, Mauro. And I don't _ever_ want to hear that kind of obvious garbage and idiocy from a kernel maintainer again. Seriously." https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75

HLRoku 11y ago
Wow seeing a clear example yourself really just gets the picture across. I was giving some credence to the fact that these people were just blunt to each other, but this is just toxic and hostile. If it were just blunt honesty their excuses might be far more credible.
- digi_owl 11y ago
  Don't read that one email, read the whole exchange. Also, one rule Torvalds holds kernel development to is "do not break user space". If a kernel patch exposes an API, the behavior of said API is fixed from that point onwards. If a subsequent patch change the behavior, thus causing something in user space to error out, said patch is broken. All this should be known to the person Torvalds is talking to, having doing this for some time. Yet when the issue is pointed out, he tries to pass the blame to user space.
Arnt 11y ago
I read it, and I see that Linus was right as usual: The patch in question did break userspace and did behave in ways POSIX says the kernel shouldn't ever do. It's a pity that some others have adopted Linus' loudness without also adopting his habits of grasping the issue and being right. Linus says "don't break the posix rules%@#$!$@#$", never "do as I prefer$#@$@#$!@#$". There's a big, big difference.
- raverbashing 11y ago
  This What would be the general level of frustration if something fundamental was broken? More importantly, how frustrating it is to get back to the same kinds of problems? (I remember a similar issue with ACPI where the kernel got into a 'fix/break/fix' loop until they decided to change the approach and not accept breakages anymore)
syoc 11y ago
But he was correct. You should never be called out for "resorting" to the truth. He, personally, fucked up.
- coldpie 11y ago
  If that's how you react to other people making mistakes, I hope I never have to work with you :-/
  - Snesker 11y ago
    Don't worry, you won't be offered a position for a job you aren't capable of doing.
  - digi_owl 11y ago
    A senior developer making a rookie mistake, and trying to pass the blame to someone else.

by coldpie 11y ago

HLRoku 11y ago

Wow seeing a clear example yourself really just gets the picture across. I was giving some credence to the fact that these people were just blunt to each other, but this is just toxic and hostile. If it were just blunt honesty their excuses might be far more credible.

digi_owl 11y ago
Don't read that one email, read the whole exchange. Also, one rule Torvalds holds kernel development to is "do not break user space". If a kernel patch exposes an API, the behavior of said API is fixed from that point onwards. If a subsequent patch change the behavior, thus causing something in user space to error out, said patch is broken. All this should be known to the person Torvalds is talking to, having doing this for some time. Yet when the issue is pointed out, he tries to pass the blame to user space.

Arnt 11y ago

I read it, and I see that Linus was right as usual: The patch in question did break userspace and did behave in ways POSIX says the kernel shouldn't ever do. It's a pity that some others have adopted Linus' loudness without also adopting his habits of grasping the issue and being right. Linus says "don't break the posix rules%@#$!$@#$", never "do as I prefer$#@$@#$!@#$". There's a big, big difference.

raverbashing 11y ago
This What would be the general level of frustration if something fundamental was broken? More importantly, how frustrating it is to get back to the same kinds of problems? (I remember a similar issue with ACPI where the kernel got into a 'fix/break/fix' loop until they decided to change the approach and not accept breakages anymore)

syoc 11y ago

But he was correct. You should never be called out for "resorting" to the truth. He, personally, fucked up.

coldpie 11y ago
If that's how you react to other people making mistakes, I hope I never have to work with you :-/
- Snesker 11y ago
  Don't worry, you won't be offered a position for a job you aren't capable of doing.
- digi_owl 11y ago
  A senior developer making a rookie mistake, and trying to pass the blame to someone else.