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Price is dropping fast. http://nycitycab.com/business/taximedallionlist.aspx http://nycitycab.com/business/taximedallionlist.aspx. Current owners are putting

by pcurve 11y ago

Price is dropping fast. http://nycitycab.com/business/taximedallionlist.aspx http://nycitycab.com/business/taximedallionlist.aspx. Current owners are putting it up for sale for less than $600,000. I guess it's uber effect.

Gustomaximus 11y ago
To save you looking it up, prices peaked in 2011 @ $1 million for a medallion. Interestingly corporate medallions are now pushing toward $1 million ($280k in 2004). And if the 13,347 medallions were once valued at $1mil and now $600k that's a $5.3 billion paper loss. Ouch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_New_York_City#Medallions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_New_York_City#Meda...
- Retric 11y ago
  Medallions are a productive asset, so 5.3 billion is somewhat disingenuous.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - mathgeek 11y ago
    Wouldn't the current and future production be factored into the price, though? I'd have to guess that 5.3 billion is a low estimate for actual losses if you owned one of these in 2011 and still hold it.
    - Retric 11y ago
      Your double counting the returns as future cash flows are already factored into the sale price. Suppose you had a bond worth 2$ that paid out 1$ and is now worth 1$. That's not a paper loss of 1$. PS: At the last auction, in 2008, the opening bid was $189,000, and medallions sold for as little as $226,000. http://www.thenewyorkworld.com/2014/01/20/taxi-medallions/ http://www.thenewyorkworld.com/2014/01/20/taxi-medallions/ In total, TLC will be auctioning off 2,000 new medallions, 40 percent of them to drivers. (January 20, 2014) that's a significant part of the price drop.
      - Retric 11y ago
        PPS: Peaks 130$ per sift * 2 shifts per day call it 75 to 100k / year. 4 * 75 = 300k, 4 * 100 = 400k. So, yes they lost value, but far less than you might think.
      - mathgeek 11y ago
        I was speaking more to the loss of future earnings because of the lower demand for traditional taxis. Any earnings you do get out of ownership are already calculated into the value of the medallion, so not only are you losing the difference in value but also the earnings that it enable you to receive (but you'll no longer get even though you spent the original price expecting them).
exelius 11y ago
Yeah, and it's never been easier to get a taxi in NYC. They artificially restricted the supply of medallions since at least the 70s, and that led to a severe undersupply of taxis (especially in the outer boroughs). Uber has largely fixed this.
- nemo44x 11y ago
  It's even better for the taxi drivers who have to rent the medallions for 12 hour shifts. There were more drivers than taxi's until recently and drivers would bid the rental prices up. It was either that or they didn't make any money. Now garages sit with extra cars. Instead of paying up to $250 for a shift drivers now have the power and can pick between garages and get a car for $125 now. That's money directly in their pocket. Every NYC cabbie I've spoken to who doesn't own a medallion loves Uber for precisely this reason. I'm sure it will balance out but certainly not in the garages favor. But for people with a hack license and an Uber account, they have the power to pick and choose which option serves them best today and that might mean driving a cab one day and driving their Uber the next. It's for precisely this reason I can't see why the left tends to be suspicious of Uber in NYC. I think it's great drivers have agency.
- akgerber 11y ago
  The outer borough Green Cab system also plays a huge part— the licenses to drive a green cab are available for a few thousand dollars, and thus the formerly illegal-but-accepted car service street hail system has been brought into a legal framework.

by pcurve 11y ago

Gustomaximus 11y ago

To save you looking it up, prices peaked in 2011 @ $1 million for a medallion. Interestingly corporate medallions are now pushing toward $1 million ($280k in 2004). And if the 13,347 medallions were once valued at $1mil and now $600k that's a $5.3 billion paper loss. Ouch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_New_York_City#Medallions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_New_York_City#Meda...

Retric 11y ago
Medallions are a productive asset, so 5.3 billion is somewhat disingenuous.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- mathgeek 11y ago
  Wouldn't the current and future production be factored into the price, though? I'd have to guess that 5.3 billion is a low estimate for actual losses if you owned one of these in 2011 and still hold it.
  - Retric 11y ago
    Your double counting the returns as future cash flows are already factored into the sale price. Suppose you had a bond worth 2$ that paid out 1$ and is now worth 1$. That's not a paper loss of 1$. PS: At the last auction, in 2008, the opening bid was $189,000, and medallions sold for as little as $226,000. http://www.thenewyorkworld.com/2014/01/20/taxi-medallions/ http://www.thenewyorkworld.com/2014/01/20/taxi-medallions/ In total, TLC will be auctioning off 2,000 new medallions, 40 percent of them to drivers. (January 20, 2014) that's a significant part of the price drop.
    - Retric 11y ago
      PPS: Peaks 130$ per sift * 2 shifts per day call it 75 to 100k / year. 4 * 75 = 300k, 4 * 100 = 400k. So, yes they lost value, but far less than you might think.
    - mathgeek 11y ago
      I was speaking more to the loss of future earnings because of the lower demand for traditional taxis. Any earnings you do get out of ownership are already calculated into the value of the medallion, so not only are you losing the difference in value but also the earnings that it enable you to receive (but you'll no longer get even though you spent the original price expecting them).

exelius 11y ago

Yeah, and it's never been easier to get a taxi in NYC. They artificially restricted the supply of medallions since at least the 70s, and that led to a severe undersupply of taxis (especially in the outer boroughs). Uber has largely fixed this.

nemo44x 11y ago
It's even better for the taxi drivers who have to rent the medallions for 12 hour shifts. There were more drivers than taxi's until recently and drivers would bid the rental prices up. It was either that or they didn't make any money. Now garages sit with extra cars. Instead of paying up to $250 for a shift drivers now have the power and can pick between garages and get a car for $125 now. That's money directly in their pocket. Every NYC cabbie I've spoken to who doesn't own a medallion loves Uber for precisely this reason. I'm sure it will balance out but certainly not in the garages favor. But for people with a hack license and an Uber account, they have the power to pick and choose which option serves them best today and that might mean driving a cab one day and driving their Uber the next. It's for precisely this reason I can't see why the left tends to be suspicious of Uber in NYC. I think it's great drivers have agency.
akgerber 11y ago
The outer borough Green Cab system also plays a huge part— the licenses to drive a green cab are available for a few thousand dollars, and thus the formerly illegal-but-accepted car service street hail system has been brought into a legal framework.