5 ms·

Agreed. I can't even find examples of transgressions. It's not sexist and homophobic to perform software development, so why can't she just ignore any of those

Agreed. I can't even find examples of transgressions. It's not sexist and homophobic to perform software development, so why can't she just ignore any of those comments or subtexts? She harps on about lack of professionalism but she can't raise the bar for herself?

Kristine1975 11y ago
>so why can't she just ignore any of those comments or subtexts? Why should she have to?
- javert 11y ago
  Because you can't control other people, but you can control how you react internally to what they say. Thinking about what they are saying in an appropriate way will lead to an appropriate emotional response. If you can't do that, and you are feeling inappropriate emotions, the only other option you have is to just quit. Which is what she did. It isn't even a male vs. female thing. Men are constantly assholes to other men.
  - Kristine1975 11y ago
    >but you can control how you react internally to what they say. Life would certainly be easier in some situations if humans were this rational. However I don't think they are. FWIW I also don't think it has anything to do with people's (real or perceived) gender.
    - javert 11y ago
      > Life would certainly be easier in some situations if humans were this rational. However I don't think they are. In this case you say, "How much does it really matter that Linus is being a huge asshole to me? Is this really something I should be ashamed about? Do I really care that much? Is this going to have any effect long term?" and so on. And perhaps most importantly, you remember the positive things that counterbalance the negatives. It doesn't take a genius. Humans are certainly "rational enough" to do this. This is the same technique used by/promoted by cognitive-behavioral psychotherapy. A person who never learns to do this effectively is going to be at the mercy of random emotions their entire life.
      - jpmoral 11y ago
        There's a huge difference between being "at the mercy of random emotions their entire life" and deciding that staying in the situation you're in just isn't worth it anymore. People make that decision all the time, and have different thresholds for it. I don't understand the hostility towards Sarah's decision in the thread.
        javert 11y ago
        > There's a huge difference between being "at the mercy of random emotions their entire life" and deciding that staying in the situation you're in just isn't worth it anymore. Right. We weren't specifically taking about Sarah Sharp any more at the point in the conversation that I said that. I would not want to stay in a genuinely hostile work environment, and I would leave. That said, I doubt the LKML is actually a genuinely hostile work environment. The people on LKML do not genuinely wish others harm or genuinely despise them. They just have a culture of being confrontational, harsh, and direct, sometimes with exaggeration, and it works. That is something that Sarah Sharp could not (or wasn't willing to) adapt to, by her own admission. Conversely, there should be no expectation that the community of Linux developers is going to adapt to Sarah Sharp. Nor should they---what they have works very well.
        jpmoral 11y ago
        I can agree with you here. > Conversely, there should be no expectation that the community of Linux developers is going to adapt to Sarah Sharp. Nor should they---what they have works very well. I hope we can agree, though, that she can't be blamed for trying. I really don't get the hostility to that (not from you).
    - efaref 11y ago
      So it boils down to "I'm incapable of controlling how I react to you, so I want you to control how you react to {me, other people}." It's just selfish and rude, and yet Linus is called that when when calls these people out.
      - javert 11y ago
        It's not selfish. Doing something that does not work is not selfish, it is self-sacrificial. It is stupid.

Kristine1975 11y ago

>so why can't she just ignore any of those comments or subtexts? Why should she have to?

javert 11y ago
Because you can't control other people, but you can control how you react internally to what they say. Thinking about what they are saying in an appropriate way will lead to an appropriate emotional response. If you can't do that, and you are feeling inappropriate emotions, the only other option you have is to just quit. Which is what she did. It isn't even a male vs. female thing. Men are constantly assholes to other men.
- Kristine1975 11y ago
  >but you can control how you react internally to what they say. Life would certainly be easier in some situations if humans were this rational. However I don't think they are. FWIW I also don't think it has anything to do with people's (real or perceived) gender.
  - javert 11y ago
    > Life would certainly be easier in some situations if humans were this rational. However I don't think they are. In this case you say, "How much does it really matter that Linus is being a huge asshole to me? Is this really something I should be ashamed about? Do I really care that much? Is this going to have any effect long term?" and so on. And perhaps most importantly, you remember the positive things that counterbalance the negatives. It doesn't take a genius. Humans are certainly "rational enough" to do this. This is the same technique used by/promoted by cognitive-behavioral psychotherapy. A person who never learns to do this effectively is going to be at the mercy of random emotions their entire life.
    - jpmoral 11y ago
      There's a huge difference between being "at the mercy of random emotions their entire life" and deciding that staying in the situation you're in just isn't worth it anymore. People make that decision all the time, and have different thresholds for it. I don't understand the hostility towards Sarah's decision in the thread.
      - javert 11y ago
        > There's a huge difference between being "at the mercy of random emotions their entire life" and deciding that staying in the situation you're in just isn't worth it anymore. Right. We weren't specifically taking about Sarah Sharp any more at the point in the conversation that I said that. I would not want to stay in a genuinely hostile work environment, and I would leave. That said, I doubt the LKML is actually a genuinely hostile work environment. The people on LKML do not genuinely wish others harm or genuinely despise them. They just have a culture of being confrontational, harsh, and direct, sometimes with exaggeration, and it works. That is something that Sarah Sharp could not (or wasn't willing to) adapt to, by her own admission. Conversely, there should be no expectation that the community of Linux developers is going to adapt to Sarah Sharp. Nor should they---what they have works very well.
        jpmoral 11y ago
        I can agree with you here. > Conversely, there should be no expectation that the community of Linux developers is going to adapt to Sarah Sharp. Nor should they---what they have works very well. I hope we can agree, though, that she can't be blamed for trying. I really don't get the hostility to that (not from you).
  - efaref 11y ago
    So it boils down to "I'm incapable of controlling how I react to you, so I want you to control how you react to {me, other people}." It's just selfish and rude, and yet Linus is called that when when calls these people out.
    - javert 11y ago
      It's not selfish. Doing something that does not work is not selfish, it is self-sacrificial. It is stupid.