6 ms·

A Criminal Mind – Why did a respected psychiatrist became a drug dealer?

74 points by fahimulhaq 11y ago

dennisnedry 11y ago
Such a sad story. It's as if he knows what's going on, but he can't do anything to stop it.
- mettamage 11y ago
  Or doesn't even care about stopping it.
  - VLM 11y ago
    That's because he's crazy. The sad part is using prison as a mental health treatment facility. I suspect being locked up with crazy people does nothing good for genuine criminals, with respect to constantly interfering with the guards and safety procedures and whatever little rehabilitation might exist.
  - jcromartie 11y ago
    And can't care about stopping it.
fahimulhaq 11y ago
Following is the most intriguing stat for me. "In March, for example, researchers from the University of Denver found that 96 percent of all inmates screened at the Downtown Detention Center in Colorado had brain trauma, mostly from blunt-force injuries to the head — much higher than the estimated 6 to 8.5 percent of the general population."
- rl3 11y ago
  More on that: http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27673196/nearly-all-denver-jail-inmates-high-risk-unit http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27673196/nearly-all-denver... How sad.
  - revelation 11y ago
    Is prison a risk factor for brain trauma or is brain trauma a risk factor for prison?
anmonteiro90 11y ago
Hate to be the grammar nazi, but there's an error in the title: "become" and not "became"
bru_ 11y ago
Is this the plot to American Beauty?
scarmig 11y ago
Something to consider: just because there is a widely present neurological basis for criminality doesn't mean we shouldn't segregate those suffering from it from society. They're still a risk and real danger to everyone around them. It would be nice, though, if we could move away from the idea that we need to be the implementers of some grand cosmic justice, where every sin of the accused must be punished by inflicting pain and suffering on them (up to and including brutal gang rapes, which are popularly joked about and sometimes even celebrated, at least in America). That might require re-evaluating or even disposing of traditional notions of moral guilt and punishment, though.
- tormeh 11y ago
  This. Segregation, not punishment. I believe as neuroscience advances way fewer things will be ascribed to amoral choices. Explaining crime with free will is often like explaining natural disasters with God's will - mere supersition.
  - ams6110 11y ago
    So we need a new Australia where we send all our criminals? How is "segregation, not punishment" materially different from what we do now with prisons.
    - pessimizer 11y ago
      Sounds better. More therapeutic.
      - tormeh 11y ago
        Many prisons are built to be awful places on purpose. That needs to stop.
    - scarmig 11y ago
      One asks us to adopt a frame of criminal justice as a social harm reduction policy; the other encourages us to think of criminal justice as a way of doling out pain to monsters totally unlike us. It's still not at all an easy problem to solve--a whole lot of what makes prisons so shitty is the other prisoners, but enforcing a total isolation on the criminal from anyone he may hurt or be hurt by is probably more harmful than a shiv, which is the deep tension that any solution will have to work around. But the bigger thing standing in the way of a solution is the belief of most people, which is rarely even thinly veiled, that most criminals deserve whatever they get. Which is understandable: many times (most of the time?) the criminal has actually done something heinous, and I suspect we're programmed to depersonalize and even hate people who commit asocial crimes. But it does lead to barbaric results that a civilized society should reject. ETA: Just to be explicit that there are ways to make the experience of prisons better: don't charge a prisoner $20 for a 15 minute phone call. Allow them internet access. And, more controversially, implement the panopticon--right now there's little to no accountability for the things that happen within prison walls.
marincounty 11y ago
I'm not going to defend all actions of this psychiatrist, but know there's a war going on with the DEA and medical doctors(mainly Psychiatrists and and doctor who deals with patients in pain--Pain Specialists). I discount all the testimony on his first wife, and children; I just don't know if he did anything illegial. Yes, it might have been weird, but not illegal. He married a much younger wife--not unheard of? I recall one med student joke about having a medschool spouse, and that was comming from a woman. I believe the DEA, did an accounting of his prescribing practices between 2004 and 2007. We all read those huge amounts of drugs he was dispensing, but why did they count the number of pills, and not the correlate that to patients. They said he prescribed 37,000 Xanax in in those years. That's also 1223 patients in that time period with a script for 30 pills? The hydrocodone was 2630 scripts for 30 pills. This is a well know Psychiatrist in his 60's. He must have thousands of patient he's treating? He's lived through the SSRI lies? He knows what works, and what doesn't. I don't know why he was prescribing a Fetnal type drug, other than maybe he was seeing cancer patients, or he took pity on patients who just had pain other physicians refused to treat? He was investigated by three agencies. I don't belive the local police investigation; I have seen them lie too frequently to make their case. I am Leary of the DEA undercover investigation. I'm not Leary of the California State licensing Board. In that instance he offerd advise and warnings. "In March, an undercover agent from the California Medical Board came to Dreyer, saying she had a sore throat and cramps. He told her she was “very pretty” and inquired if she was single. She asked for Xanax, and Dreyer said he worried about her “getting all these crazy meds,” adding, “I don’t want to hook you, baby.” He prescribed 30 doses of Xanax and 60 doses of Vicodin." He shouldn't have flirted with her, but he warned her about addiction, and didn't give an unreasonable amount of medication--especially if he wasen't going to see her for months? We don't have the transcript of that office visit. My point is he's a older physician who dealt with patients whom were in psychological, and physical pain. He was taught in med school to alleviate pain, and misery. Through out the article, everyone was astonished he was Not making much money 'doing these illegial acts'? He was charging $100 a visit, which in my neck of the woods is a bargain. Most of these Psychaitrists are charging $350-$500 an office visit, and you leave with a safe, and so many times ineffective SSRI, and a business card of a MFCC. My point is I'm not sure he was so reckless; he should be in prison? Psychiatrist deal with people in pain. How many patients are they allowed to see? Just how many scripts are they allowed to write? Maybe they should tell doctors exactly what, and whom to prescribe too? I usually don't defend doctors, but know the DEA is after them on a large scale. One day, you might be in a Psychiatrist office and you won't get that medication that stops a panic attack dead in its track? I guess what I'm trying to say is I would like to see all the transcripts. I would like to know how many of his patients were diagnosed with terminal cancer, or another deadly, painful disease? I Don't want to argue with anyone, he's in jail--Yay right? Just another drug dealer? Maybe misunderstood, by a paranoid government agency? An agency with agents, administrators who didn't go to medical school? Again--I fear a medical establishment that won't treat pain(psychological/physical) because they don't want the DEA breathing down their backs. Hell, it's happening right now. Good luck with that slipped disc. They just aren't prescribing drugs that actually work--out of fear. Yes--we have a problem with opoid/benzo addiction, but their are people who benefit from these drugs too. Why, in America, do we need to solve complex problems with a hammer?
humbleMouse 11y ago
Wow, this story is pretty nuts and well written.
- NickHaflinger 11y ago
  Did anyone else find the prose style overblown, turgid and treacly, a bit like a cross between Tom Wolf, John Updike and Dame Beryl Bainbridge :)
jcromartie 11y ago
Every mental state is precipitated by the physical state of the brain. The only difference between a criminal who does something "intentionally" and someone like this is a difference of degree. Unless someone wants to demonstrate supernatural free will, we need to stop pretending that anybody does anything completely on their own. This doesn't mean we should let dangerous people roam free, but it means that we should let evidence decide the most effective response to unwanted behavior rather than our desire for retribution.
theworstshill 11y ago
Being around five chicks all the time, no wonder the guy went crazy.
- dang 11y ago
  Please don't post uncivil and unsubstantive comments to Hacker News. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

74 points by fahimulhaq 11y ago

dennisnedry 11y ago

Such a sad story. It's as if he knows what's going on, but he can't do anything to stop it.

mettamage 11y ago
Or doesn't even care about stopping it.
- VLM 11y ago
  That's because he's crazy. The sad part is using prison as a mental health treatment facility. I suspect being locked up with crazy people does nothing good for genuine criminals, with respect to constantly interfering with the guards and safety procedures and whatever little rehabilitation might exist.
- jcromartie 11y ago
  And can't care about stopping it.

fahimulhaq 11y ago

Following is the most intriguing stat for me. "In March, for example, researchers from the University of Denver found that 96 percent of all inmates screened at the Downtown Detention Center in Colorado had brain trauma, mostly from blunt-force injuries to the head — much higher than the estimated 6 to 8.5 percent of the general population."

rl3 11y ago
More on that: http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27673196/nearly-all-denver-jail-inmates-high-risk-unit http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27673196/nearly-all-denver... How sad.
- revelation 11y ago
  Is prison a risk factor for brain trauma or is brain trauma a risk factor for prison?

anmonteiro90 11y ago

Hate to be the grammar nazi, but there's an error in the title: "become" and not "became"

bru_ 11y ago

Is this the plot to American Beauty?

scarmig 11y ago

Something to consider: just because there is a widely present neurological basis for criminality doesn't mean we shouldn't segregate those suffering from it from society. They're still a risk and real danger to everyone around them. It would be nice, though, if we could move away from the idea that we need to be the implementers of some grand cosmic justice, where every sin of the accused must be punished by inflicting pain and suffering on them (up to and including brutal gang rapes, which are popularly joked about and sometimes even celebrated, at least in America). That might require re-evaluating or even disposing of traditional notions of moral guilt and punishment, though.

tormeh 11y ago
This. Segregation, not punishment. I believe as neuroscience advances way fewer things will be ascribed to amoral choices. Explaining crime with free will is often like explaining natural disasters with God's will - mere supersition.
- ams6110 11y ago
  So we need a new Australia where we send all our criminals? How is "segregation, not punishment" materially different from what we do now with prisons.
  - pessimizer 11y ago
    Sounds better. More therapeutic.
    - tormeh 11y ago
      Many prisons are built to be awful places on purpose. That needs to stop.
  - scarmig 11y ago
    One asks us to adopt a frame of criminal justice as a social harm reduction policy; the other encourages us to think of criminal justice as a way of doling out pain to monsters totally unlike us. It's still not at all an easy problem to solve--a whole lot of what makes prisons so shitty is the other prisoners, but enforcing a total isolation on the criminal from anyone he may hurt or be hurt by is probably more harmful than a shiv, which is the deep tension that any solution will have to work around. But the bigger thing standing in the way of a solution is the belief of most people, which is rarely even thinly veiled, that most criminals deserve whatever they get. Which is understandable: many times (most of the time?) the criminal has actually done something heinous, and I suspect we're programmed to depersonalize and even hate people who commit asocial crimes. But it does lead to barbaric results that a civilized society should reject. ETA: Just to be explicit that there are ways to make the experience of prisons better: don't charge a prisoner $20 for a 15 minute phone call. Allow them internet access. And, more controversially, implement the panopticon--right now there's little to no accountability for the things that happen within prison walls.

marincounty 11y ago

I'm not going to defend all actions of this psychiatrist, but know there's a war going on with the DEA and medical doctors(mainly Psychiatrists and and doctor who deals with patients in pain--Pain Specialists). I discount all the testimony on his first wife, and children; I just don't know if he did anything illegial. Yes, it might have been weird, but not illegal. He married a much younger wife--not unheard of? I recall one med student joke about having a medschool spouse, and that was comming from a woman. I believe the DEA, did an accounting of his prescribing practices between 2004 and 2007. We all read those huge amounts of drugs he was dispensing, but why did they count the number of pills, and not the correlate that to patients. They said he prescribed 37,000 Xanax in in those years. That's also 1223 patients in that time period with a script for 30 pills? The hydrocodone was 2630 scripts for 30 pills. This is a well know Psychiatrist in his 60's. He must have thousands of patient he's treating? He's lived through the SSRI lies? He knows what works, and what doesn't. I don't know why he was prescribing a Fetnal type drug, other than maybe he was seeing cancer patients, or he took pity on patients who just had pain other physicians refused to treat? He was investigated by three agencies. I don't belive the local police investigation; I have seen them lie too frequently to make their case. I am Leary of the DEA undercover investigation. I'm not Leary of the California State licensing Board. In that instance he offerd advise and warnings. "In March, an undercover agent from the California Medical Board came to Dreyer, saying she had a sore throat and cramps. He told her she was “very pretty” and inquired if she was single. She asked for Xanax, and Dreyer said he worried about her “getting all these crazy meds,” adding, “I don’t want to hook you, baby.” He prescribed 30 doses of Xanax and 60 doses of Vicodin." He shouldn't have flirted with her, but he warned her about addiction, and didn't give an unreasonable amount of medication--especially if he wasen't going to see her for months? We don't have the transcript of that office visit. My point is he's a older physician who dealt with patients whom were in psychological, and physical pain. He was taught in med school to alleviate pain, and misery. Through out the article, everyone was astonished he was Not making much money 'doing these illegial acts'? He was charging $100 a visit, which in my neck of the woods is a bargain. Most of these Psychaitrists are charging $350-$500 an office visit, and you leave with a safe, and so many times ineffective SSRI, and a business card of a MFCC. My point is I'm not sure he was so reckless; he should be in prison? Psychiatrist deal with people in pain. How many patients are they allowed to see? Just how many scripts are they allowed to write? Maybe they should tell doctors exactly what, and whom to prescribe too? I usually don't defend doctors, but know the DEA is after them on a large scale. One day, you might be in a Psychiatrist office and you won't get that medication that stops a panic attack dead in its track? I guess what I'm trying to say is I would like to see all the transcripts. I would like to know how many of his patients were diagnosed with terminal cancer, or another deadly, painful disease? I Don't want to argue with anyone, he's in jail--Yay right? Just another drug dealer? Maybe misunderstood, by a paranoid government agency? An agency with agents, administrators who didn't go to medical school? Again--I fear a medical establishment that won't treat pain(psychological/physical) because they don't want the DEA breathing down their backs. Hell, it's happening right now. Good luck with that slipped disc. They just aren't prescribing drugs that actually work--out of fear. Yes--we have a problem with opoid/benzo addiction, but their are people who benefit from these drugs too. Why, in America, do we need to solve complex problems with a hammer?

humbleMouse 11y ago

Wow, this story is pretty nuts and well written.

NickHaflinger 11y ago
Did anyone else find the prose style overblown, turgid and treacly, a bit like a cross between Tom Wolf, John Updike and Dame Beryl Bainbridge :)

jcromartie 11y ago

Every mental state is precipitated by the physical state of the brain. The only difference between a criminal who does something "intentionally" and someone like this is a difference of degree. Unless someone wants to demonstrate supernatural free will, we need to stop pretending that anybody does anything completely on their own. This doesn't mean we should let dangerous people roam free, but it means that we should let evidence decide the most effective response to unwanted behavior rather than our desire for retribution.

theworstshill 11y ago

Being around five chicks all the time, no wonder the guy went crazy.

dang 11y ago
Please don't post uncivil and unsubstantive comments to Hacker News. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html