5 ms·

Real-name internet identities have some drawbacks compared to their real-world counterparts: 1. In real life its fairly easy (and I would say healthy) to have

Real-name internet identities have some drawbacks compared to their real-world counterparts: 1. In real life its fairly easy (and I would say healthy) to have multiple "identities", say your workday exquisitely professional identity and weekend identity which enjoys goofy antics with friends. In infinitely googlable internet - not so much. I guess mitigating this is the idea behind google+ circles but I have never used them so can't say much. 2. In real life past events tend to diminish in significance after some time passes. So someone who had committed a misstep can atone himself over time. Not so on the internet - what happened on the internet stays on the internet ... like forever and also infinitely googlable. This is less relevant to the walled garden of facebook but relevant to the internet at large. Considering the difficulties with friend requests - you are usually connected to the people you want to befriend through other means (e.g. in real life). So use that channel to communicate your pseudonym! I guess real-name policy had sense when facebook was being discovered by former classmates who wanted to be in touch over the internet for the first time but these days are long gone.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
> In real life its fairly easy (and I would say healthy) to have multiple "identities", say your workday exquisitely professional identity and weekend identity which enjoys goofy antics with friends. I think Facebook primarily targets the second one. Though personally, I find the whole concept of this type of multiple identities weird. Why should I present a different identity at work than I do in personal affairs? And if your boss objects to your weekend parties, then (unless we're talking PR-heavy industry, you being in the spotlight) you should consider changing jobs. Caring about such issues is as sign of serious problems in the company.
- taswal_tmanir 11y ago
  > Though personally, I find the whole concept of this type of multiple identities weird. Why should I present a different identity at work than I do in personal affairs? Most people act more formally at work than they would otherwise. It's the same idea. > And if your boss objects to your weekend parties, then (unless we're talking PR-heavy industry, you being in the spotlight) you should consider changing jobs. Caring about such issues is as sign of serious problems in the company. If you have a secure job, or are important to the company, maybe. Many younger people are not so secure in their jobs, however, or live in a highly religious area, or both. A Facebook user still dependent on their strict parents could also be ruined by a stray pic.
  - morgante 11y ago
    That's why privacy controls exist. It's pretty easy on Facebook to restrict your social photos to only your social friends.
- Riseed 11y ago
  > Why should I present a different identity at work than I do in personal affairs? In the tech industry, perhaps not so much of an issue. But, for example, I'm sure many K-8 teachers have a "work" self and a "weekend" self that don't (and/or shouldn't) mix well.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    Right... I should have known this. Thanks. I actually have a secondary-school teacher as a Facebook friend and she does in fact selectively publish things to different groups, because she has some of her students as friends on Facebook.
- pdkl95 11y ago
  From your other posts you seem to have a very good sense of social responsibility, so I'm surprised at this comment. Multiple identities are incredibly important to anybody in a minority that is threatened by their local mainstream culture. Black people in may areas (even today), gay or lesbian people in many parts of the world, and trans people just about anywhere[1] are some obvious examples. There are numerous others, which bring varying amounts of risk if exposed publicly. These people are often forced to put on a facade when in public, to avoid the risk of being fired (only a few of these are protected classes), beaten, or even killed. The internet has created a space where these people can be themselves... as long as it doesn't connect back to their real name and identity. Yes, leaving a job is a good way to avoid a bigoted manager, but that isn't an option for everybody. Your boss isn't the only threat, either: it wasn't that long ago that being openly gay could get you lynched in some areas. This comes down to the basic concept of privacy. I recommend Dan Geer's definition[2] of privacy in light of modern technology: Privacy used to be proportional to that which it is impossible to observe or that which can be observed but not identified. No more -- what is today observable and identifiable kills both privacy as impossible-to-observe and privacy as impossible-to-identify, so what might be an alternative? If you are an optimist or an apparatchik, then your answer will tend toward rules of data procedure administered by a government you trust or control. If you are a pessimist or a hacker/maker, then your answer will tend towards the operational, and your definition of a state of privacy will be my definition: the effective capacity to misrepresent yourself. Real name policies are, de facto isomorphic with banning privacy. It is saying that people must never experiment with how they present themselves to the world. It's saying that anybody who fears repercussions if they act like themselves must stay in the closet. It is nice to believe that we are past these problems. I'm often thankful that I have the privilege to live in California, which has been very accepting of diversity. Unfortunately, we haven't solved all of these problems, and they are not going to be solved in the near future. Sometimes an optimist or apparatchick insists that forcing everybody into the public so nothing is hidden and privacy no longer exists will somehow eradicate bigotry and discrimination. Well, bigots are often proud of their beliefs, and most people don't consider the consequences anyway; these problems are not solved by magical thinking. [1] http://www.newrepublic.com/article/politics/magazine/90519/transgender-civil-rights-gay-lesbian-lgbtq http://www.newrepublic.com/article/politics/magazine/90519/t... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT-TGvYOBpI#t=2415 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT-TGvYOBpI#t=2415
- emmab 11y ago
  An interesting perspective on this from Japanese culture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae
- CookieMon 11y ago
  > And if your boss objects to your weekend parties, then you should consider changing jobs. Caring about such issues is as sign of serious problems in the company. It doesn't work like that. On PT I listened to an HR employee laughing to a friend about how great Facebook is for them. A story she told was of a recent job applicant, they looked up his facebook profile and found he'd posted some weekend party photos. She laughed about how you could "tell from the eyes" he was on drugs... "needless to say, he didn't get the job". People in the real world are penalized when they don't keep work/play identities separate — especially beady-eyed people! (Conversely, if my facebook profile ever fills up with cats and doctored photos of me climbing K2, or helping out at the local orphanage, you'll know I'm applying for a job somewhere with an HR department)
- rmc 11y ago
  > Why should I present a different identity at work than I do in personal affairs? Here's one: Gay people. There are many places where you can be fired for being gay. > you should consider changing jobs. That isn't always possible.
morgante 11y ago
> 1. In real life its fairly easy (and I would say healthy) to have multiple "identities" I don't know of anyone who uses different names for those identities. My family calls me by a nickname, but certainly all my friends and business relationships know my "real name." I imagine that's true for 99% of people: they name a name that they use with nearly everyone. The rest of identity management is easily done on Facebook. My business colleagues see an entirely different version of my Facebook than my college friends: literally everything you post can be scoped to a particular friend list. > Considering the difficulties with friend requests - you are usually connected to the people you want to befriend through other means (e.g. in real life). Kind of, but it's awkward and unnecessary. I'm friends on Facebook with basically everyone I'm in class with, even though asking their username would be kind of strange. This nominal friendship is very helpful for quickly asking questions or interacting.

TeMPOraL 11y ago

> In real life its fairly easy (and I would say healthy) to have multiple "identities", say your workday exquisitely professional identity and weekend identity which enjoys goofy antics with friends. I think Facebook primarily targets the second one. Though personally, I find the whole concept of this type of multiple identities weird. Why should I present a different identity at work than I do in personal affairs? And if your boss objects to your weekend parties, then (unless we're talking PR-heavy industry, you being in the spotlight) you should consider changing jobs. Caring about such issues is as sign of serious problems in the company.

taswal_tmanir 11y ago
> Though personally, I find the whole concept of this type of multiple identities weird. Why should I present a different identity at work than I do in personal affairs? Most people act more formally at work than they would otherwise. It's the same idea. > And if your boss objects to your weekend parties, then (unless we're talking PR-heavy industry, you being in the spotlight) you should consider changing jobs. Caring about such issues is as sign of serious problems in the company. If you have a secure job, or are important to the company, maybe. Many younger people are not so secure in their jobs, however, or live in a highly religious area, or both. A Facebook user still dependent on their strict parents could also be ruined by a stray pic.
- morgante 11y ago
  That's why privacy controls exist. It's pretty easy on Facebook to restrict your social photos to only your social friends.
Riseed 11y ago
> Why should I present a different identity at work than I do in personal affairs? In the tech industry, perhaps not so much of an issue. But, for example, I'm sure many K-8 teachers have a "work" self and a "weekend" self that don't (and/or shouldn't) mix well.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Right... I should have known this. Thanks. I actually have a secondary-school teacher as a Facebook friend and she does in fact selectively publish things to different groups, because she has some of her students as friends on Facebook.
pdkl95 11y ago
From your other posts you seem to have a very good sense of social responsibility, so I'm surprised at this comment. Multiple identities are incredibly important to anybody in a minority that is threatened by their local mainstream culture. Black people in may areas (even today), gay or lesbian people in many parts of the world, and trans people just about anywhere[1] are some obvious examples. There are numerous others, which bring varying amounts of risk if exposed publicly. These people are often forced to put on a facade when in public, to avoid the risk of being fired (only a few of these are protected classes), beaten, or even killed. The internet has created a space where these people can be themselves... as long as it doesn't connect back to their real name and identity. Yes, leaving a job is a good way to avoid a bigoted manager, but that isn't an option for everybody. Your boss isn't the only threat, either: it wasn't that long ago that being openly gay could get you lynched in some areas. This comes down to the basic concept of privacy. I recommend Dan Geer's definition[2] of privacy in light of modern technology: Privacy used to be proportional to that which it is impossible to observe or that which can be observed but not identified. No more -- what is today observable and identifiable kills both privacy as impossible-to-observe and privacy as impossible-to-identify, so what might be an alternative? If you are an optimist or an apparatchik, then your answer will tend toward rules of data procedure administered by a government you trust or control. If you are a pessimist or a hacker/maker, then your answer will tend towards the operational, and your definition of a state of privacy will be my definition: the effective capacity to misrepresent yourself. Real name policies are, de facto isomorphic with banning privacy. It is saying that people must never experiment with how they present themselves to the world. It's saying that anybody who fears repercussions if they act like themselves must stay in the closet. It is nice to believe that we are past these problems. I'm often thankful that I have the privilege to live in California, which has been very accepting of diversity. Unfortunately, we haven't solved all of these problems, and they are not going to be solved in the near future. Sometimes an optimist or apparatchick insists that forcing everybody into the public so nothing is hidden and privacy no longer exists will somehow eradicate bigotry and discrimination. Well, bigots are often proud of their beliefs, and most people don't consider the consequences anyway; these problems are not solved by magical thinking. [1] http://www.newrepublic.com/article/politics/magazine/90519/transgender-civil-rights-gay-lesbian-lgbtq http://www.newrepublic.com/article/politics/magazine/90519/t... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT-TGvYOBpI#t=2415 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT-TGvYOBpI#t=2415
emmab 11y ago
An interesting perspective on this from Japanese culture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae
CookieMon 11y ago
> And if your boss objects to your weekend parties, then you should consider changing jobs. Caring about such issues is as sign of serious problems in the company. It doesn't work like that. On PT I listened to an HR employee laughing to a friend about how great Facebook is for them. A story she told was of a recent job applicant, they looked up his facebook profile and found he'd posted some weekend party photos. She laughed about how you could "tell from the eyes" he was on drugs... "needless to say, he didn't get the job". People in the real world are penalized when they don't keep work/play identities separate — especially beady-eyed people! (Conversely, if my facebook profile ever fills up with cats and doctored photos of me climbing K2, or helping out at the local orphanage, you'll know I'm applying for a job somewhere with an HR department)
rmc 11y ago
> Why should I present a different identity at work than I do in personal affairs? Here's one: Gay people. There are many places where you can be fired for being gay. > you should consider changing jobs. That isn't always possible.

morgante 11y ago

> 1. In real life its fairly easy (and I would say healthy) to have multiple "identities" I don't know of anyone who uses different names for those identities. My family calls me by a nickname, but certainly all my friends and business relationships know my "real name." I imagine that's true for 99% of people: they name a name that they use with nearly everyone. The rest of identity management is easily done on Facebook. My business colleagues see an entirely different version of my Facebook than my college friends: literally everything you post can be scoped to a particular friend list. > Considering the difficulties with friend requests - you are usually connected to the people you want to befriend through other means (e.g. in real life). Kind of, but it's awkward and unnecessary. I'm friends on Facebook with basically everyone I'm in class with, even though asking their username would be kind of strange. This nominal friendship is very helpful for quickly asking questions or interacting.