3 ms·

Well you don't even necessarily need to relieve student loan debt, you could start by making it forgivable. Right now student loan debt can't be discharged thro

Well you don't even necessarily need to relieve student loan debt, you could start by making it forgivable. Right now student loan debt can't be discharged through bankruptcy, and it creates a perverse market incentive for college tuition. Not to mention this attack ad is right on the website for the Washington State Republican Party: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOYX3TBZEM8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOYX3TBZEM8

ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
That ad has nothing to do with student loan debt per se, and is a standard attack ad, the veracity of which I'm quick to doubt for being a 30 second sound bite.
- unimpressive 11y ago
  It's in the overton window, is what I mean. Obviously attack ads are not to be trusted.
Mz 11y ago
In some cases, they can be discharged: https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation#discharge-in https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancell...
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  But not as easily as a mortgage, which is downright silly considering the volume at which Fannie and Freddie originated mortgages. You can walk from a house if it has no value, why would a degree be any different?
  - mahyarm 11y ago
    Because it's unsecured debt. Cannot take an 'education' back. You can take back a house or a car. People with low or no income only get small credit lines.
  - eimai134 11y ago
    You lose your house if you walk away from it, including all the money you've paid into it. The equivalent of this for student loans would be if you gave back your degree and related experience when you defaulted on student loans.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      This only works when the underlying asset has value (note how many people walked away from their underwater homes during the housing collapse). This is no different.
      - Mz 11y ago
        Unless it is a Love Canal scenario, the land and home still have some value and can be resold, even if it is no longer worth as much as the owner owes. But the university cannot have you send your diploma back and auction it off to someone else to get partial compensation. Loans always involve some risk and there are always some bad loans. But there is, in fact, a real difference between secured debt and unsecured debt. A mortgage is secured debt. A student loan is unsecured debt. Furthermore, since the point of education is to basically help people become more clever, if we make it too easy for smart, knowledgeable people to wash their hands of their student loans, the end result will be an overall societal attitude of "Only a fool actually pays their student loans." At that point, the entire system falls apart in a way that makes our current woes look like small potatoes.
        eimai134 11y ago
        Very true. There is also the big difference of private companies versus the government taking on the debt that is walked away from.
        toomuchtodo 11y ago
        > Furthermore, since the point of education is to basically help people become more clever, if we make it too easy for smart, knowledgeable people to wash their hands of their student loans, the end result will be an overall societal attitude of "Only a fool actually pays their student loans." At that point, the entire system falls apart in a way that makes our current woes look like small potatoes. That's going to happen regardless, with over a trillion dollars in student loan debt. Its just taking longer than expected. Smart people will always learn how to hack the system. Its easy to default on a house in any state. Its easy to default on your student loan debt if you're moving to another country. The only people who get stuck with worthless debt are suckers.
  - eimai134 11y ago
    You should reread my comment, where I outlined several ways in which this is different.
eimai134 11y ago
The difference is that with bankruptcy, the majority of your assets are seized. The equivalent would be if the degree and related experience was seized as well. Also, in bankruptcy the creditors are the ones who assume the losses. When defaulting on government loans, the taxpayers would foot the bill. Totally different scenario.

ZanyProgrammer 11y ago

That ad has nothing to do with student loan debt per se, and is a standard attack ad, the veracity of which I'm quick to doubt for being a 30 second sound bite.

unimpressive 11y ago
It's in the overton window, is what I mean. Obviously attack ads are not to be trusted.

Mz 11y ago

In some cases, they can be discharged: https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation#discharge-in https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancell...

toomuchtodo 11y ago
But not as easily as a mortgage, which is downright silly considering the volume at which Fannie and Freddie originated mortgages. You can walk from a house if it has no value, why would a degree be any different?
- mahyarm 11y ago
  Because it's unsecured debt. Cannot take an 'education' back. You can take back a house or a car. People with low or no income only get small credit lines.
- eimai134 11y ago
  You lose your house if you walk away from it, including all the money you've paid into it. The equivalent of this for student loans would be if you gave back your degree and related experience when you defaulted on student loans.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    This only works when the underlying asset has value (note how many people walked away from their underwater homes during the housing collapse). This is no different.
    - Mz 11y ago
      Unless it is a Love Canal scenario, the land and home still have some value and can be resold, even if it is no longer worth as much as the owner owes. But the university cannot have you send your diploma back and auction it off to someone else to get partial compensation. Loans always involve some risk and there are always some bad loans. But there is, in fact, a real difference between secured debt and unsecured debt. A mortgage is secured debt. A student loan is unsecured debt. Furthermore, since the point of education is to basically help people become more clever, if we make it too easy for smart, knowledgeable people to wash their hands of their student loans, the end result will be an overall societal attitude of "Only a fool actually pays their student loans." At that point, the entire system falls apart in a way that makes our current woes look like small potatoes.
      - eimai134 11y ago
        Very true. There is also the big difference of private companies versus the government taking on the debt that is walked away from.
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        > Furthermore, since the point of education is to basically help people become more clever, if we make it too easy for smart, knowledgeable people to wash their hands of their student loans, the end result will be an overall societal attitude of "Only a fool actually pays their student loans." At that point, the entire system falls apart in a way that makes our current woes look like small potatoes. That's going to happen regardless, with over a trillion dollars in student loan debt. Its just taking longer than expected. Smart people will always learn how to hack the system. Its easy to default on a house in any state. Its easy to default on your student loan debt if you're moving to another country. The only people who get stuck with worthless debt are suckers.
- eimai134 11y ago
  You should reread my comment, where I outlined several ways in which this is different.

eimai134 11y ago

The difference is that with bankruptcy, the majority of your assets are seized. The equivalent would be if the degree and related experience was seized as well. Also, in bankruptcy the creditors are the ones who assume the losses. When defaulting on government loans, the taxpayers would foot the bill. Totally different scenario.