6 ms·

http://www.pckeyboard.com/ http://www.pckeyboard.com/ Unicomp is still keeping the glory days of the IBM Model M keyboard alive.

artursapek 11y ago
Oh my god, those Windows keys. This takes me back.
throwaway7767 11y ago
I have one of those. While they're very much a descendant of the Model M, I'd say their quality control is lacking. The PageDown key on my keyboard is much lighter than all the other keys, it feels really mushy and doesn't have the same tactile feedback that it's supposed to have. All the other keys are fine. I can live with it, but I never saw such an issue with any of the Model M keyboard I've used. Also, their USB firmware sucks. Sometimes it won't work during bootup (say, if I want to go into the BIOS or pick something from the GRUB menu), and only gets properly initialised when I get into linux or windows. This only happens sometimes. Other keyboards work consistently, and the problem disappears if I plug the unicomp into a KVM switch that actually shows up as its own HID device instead of just switching the USB ports around. I've seen other keyboards with similar problems but for such an expensive keyboard, it's really quite annoying.
- webkike 11y ago
  I've had the failed to initialize problem with many keyboards, including my Kinesis. If you're using a UEFI bios it could possibly be related to fastboot being on.
- sevensor 11y ago
  I have one, and I found that problems with it not working during bootup were related to its large power draw. It's been working fine for me since I plugged it into a powered usb hub. YMMV.
  - throwaway7767 11y ago
    Thanks, that makes sense. I remember the original model m's were real power hogs, to the point that USB->PS/2 converters rarely worked with them. Now I wonder if they're just using the original circuit with a tacked on converter... might have to open it up to check.
jseliger 11y ago
Those are excellent and I used one for years: http://jakeseliger.com/2008/05/07/product-review-unicomp-customizer-keyboard/ http://jakeseliger.com/2008/05/07/product-review-unicomp-cus... before switching to a Kinesis Advantage. Though I like the keyfeel of the Model M better, the ergonomics of the Kinesis are better.
- melling 11y ago
  Can anyone discuss the ergonomics of the Kinesis? It has MX Brown Cherry switches which are easier on the hands, for example. I've often wonder if its unique shape had proven benefits. Many people have tried using it but have given up. Is it better than an ErgoDox, for instance? http://ergodox.org http://ergodox.org
  - mohaine 11y ago
    Looks similar. Keys are straight up and down which is the same. Biggest difference would the lack of curve and built in no wrist rests. Oh and it is missing functions keys which means I could never use this.... The kinesis has crappy function keys but at least it has them. Can't program with an IDE without then.
    - lenish 11y ago
      >Oh and it is missing functions keys which means I could never use this.... There are 5 rows of keys on each hand, just like a standard QWERTY keyboard with a function key row, you just have to place them along the bottom row instead of the top. The problem, I guess, is that there's only 10 keys along the bottom row, but you could place F11 and F12 on one of the many extra keys. Keep in mind they're programmable, and you can have different layers and modifiers that just exist in the keyboard itself.
  - Scramblejams 11y ago
    I've tried no other ergonomic keyboards but the Kinesis Advantage saved my programming career when a difficult job brought on a bout of RSI. Think it's about 9 years old now and still going strong. Better function keys would be appreciated, though.
paulmd 11y ago
I love what Unicomp is doing. The Model Ms are fantastic keyboards and I have several that I use for programming. They're indestructible and you can maintain and repair them very easily. You can grab keyboards off eBay and swap them out for parts, or source new parts from Unicomp. I really wish they would offer the full-size in addition to the Compact models. I have big hands and the full-size are much more comfortable for me. Any of the hipster micro-keyboards are obviously right out as well, sadly. My main work keyboard is a black M13 with the TrackPoint II. The TrackPoint has a very slow cursor speed is not very useful on modern high-res screens. I'd much rather have the new type of TrackPoint that Unicomp offers. It's OK if you turn the pointer speed all the way up, but then you lose resolution and it's hard to use a mouse with that speed. So far I haven't found a working app that lets you use different pointer speeds for different mice. Some claim to do it but I couldn't make them work. I may bang something out at some point that latches into high-speed mode if you type and drops to low-speed mode after a few seconds without typing or moving the cursor. Or maybe I could do more fine-grained control on Linux.
- rbanffy 11y ago
  > you can maintain and repair them very easily I recently had to send mine (a PC 122 layout unit) back to Unicomp when the left Alt key stuck internally at the pressed position. The pictures of the disassembly of a Model M didn't look too encouraging, so I thought it'd be best to send it back to the factory so someone familiar with the design could repair it. Would you like to point to some resources so I can do it myself the next time it fails?
apricot 11y ago
Ah, the Model M. Still have mine from 1990, used it for decades, and I would still be using it at home if it were not for the fact that it was so loud it woke up my newborn son sleeping in the other room. So I got a quieter keyboard (Realforce 87U that I picked up in Japan, very different key feeling but in a good way) and put the Model M in storage. My son is now 7 years old, loves Minecraft, and wants to learn programming. So we've been spending some quality father-son time on pcpartpicker.com lately, in search of the best computer he can afford. "No need to buy a keyboard," I told him, "I've got exactly what you need." You never actually own a Model M. You merely look after it for the next generation.
- gcb0 11y ago
  if you got a real force to replace a buckling spring you didn't do your homework :) torpe keys are louder than cherry, mostly because cherry you can use heavier key caps and dampening rubber all around. there are rumors of topre with dampening on the up motion, but even finding regular topre is already difficult enough (also imported mines from Japan, like you) also, the feeling from tactile cherries are closer the bucking spring
  - apricot 11y ago
    Just because I love buckling springs doesn't mean I don't also enjoy Topre. I'm far from monogamous when it comes to keyboards. And I most certainly did my homework, which in my case meant walking around in Den-Den Town (Osaka's version of Akihabara) trying keyboards at various stores. In the end, my two favorites were a Fujitsu Libertouch and the Realforce I got. When you say "Topre keys are louder than cherry", I guess you're excluding the clicky cherries. I have a Filco with blue cherries at work, and it's much louder than my Realforce.
  - mindslight 11y ago
    I made up-dampers for my Novatouch out of that really thin plastic-foam packing/wrapping material (0.022"). Craft foam (0.075") and heat shrunk craft foam were too thick. Now I've just got to get an MSP430 programmer and see if I can fix this braindead no-scancode "FN" key.
MichaelGG 11y ago
If only they'd make a split layout ergo design. One of the only mechanical ergos out there (available today) is the Matias Ergo Pro. And it's got a lot of dumb design decisions. Like dedicated copy/cut etc keys that just send Ctrl-C Ctrl-X etc. Bizarre. Strange placement of Ctrl that still, after months of usage, cause me typos. And a remote Esc that hurts more than normal to reach. Among other silly key placements. All of these for no good reason. A 20 minute revision during design and it'd be a perfect keyboard. I'd get a Kinesis but they're so huge and 90s looking. Most promising looking device is the Keyboardio, but that'll be a year or so.
- benburton 11y ago
  Best bet is to wait for Massdrop to relaunch that ErgoDox kit: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox?mode=guest_open https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox?mode=guest_open
  - pimlottc 11y ago
    Looks nice, any idea what the cost was/would be?
    - mavrc 11y ago
      Usually in the $250 range, unless you decide to go completely nuts on the keycaps. Then, well, the sky's the limit these days.
  - alxndr 11y ago
    If you're not looking forward to doing the soldering yourself, check out the Ergodox EZ campaign (funded but still open): https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ergodox-ez-an-incredible-mechanical-keyboard https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ergodox-ez-an-incredible-...
    - benburton 11y ago
      Looks beautiful, but I think I've blown my "keyboard budget" for the next year :)
kw71 11y ago
I used to like the Model M keyboard, before I knew anything. When my wrists started hurting, I discovered the cherry keyboards and that the Model M requires a disgustingly large force to depress the keys. My M's are now rusting in the garage, and I'm using cherry browns pain free. Also I have extra keys with hardware macros, which aren't dependent on some host software to work properly, so I can activate my console switch, etc.
some-guy 11y ago
The only problem with this keyboard: anyone I use it around absolutely hates the noise. Either my co-workers at work or my girlfriend at home.
- kpil 11y ago
  When I asked my co-workers, I got the whole range from "it sounds homely and pleasant" (quite a few actually) to one guy that asked to sit as far away as possible. I actually flossed it and added some padding, so now it's slightly less loud, but I still got one complaint... But eventually I decided that I can't make everyone happy. So I just rattle away in blissful enjoyment instead.

artursapek 11y ago

Oh my god, those Windows keys. This takes me back.

throwaway7767 11y ago

I have one of those. While they're very much a descendant of the Model M, I'd say their quality control is lacking. The PageDown key on my keyboard is much lighter than all the other keys, it feels really mushy and doesn't have the same tactile feedback that it's supposed to have. All the other keys are fine. I can live with it, but I never saw such an issue with any of the Model M keyboard I've used. Also, their USB firmware sucks. Sometimes it won't work during bootup (say, if I want to go into the BIOS or pick something from the GRUB menu), and only gets properly initialised when I get into linux or windows. This only happens sometimes. Other keyboards work consistently, and the problem disappears if I plug the unicomp into a KVM switch that actually shows up as its own HID device instead of just switching the USB ports around. I've seen other keyboards with similar problems but for such an expensive keyboard, it's really quite annoying.

webkike 11y ago
I've had the failed to initialize problem with many keyboards, including my Kinesis. If you're using a UEFI bios it could possibly be related to fastboot being on.
sevensor 11y ago
I have one, and I found that problems with it not working during bootup were related to its large power draw. It's been working fine for me since I plugged it into a powered usb hub. YMMV.
- throwaway7767 11y ago
  Thanks, that makes sense. I remember the original model m's were real power hogs, to the point that USB->PS/2 converters rarely worked with them. Now I wonder if they're just using the original circuit with a tacked on converter... might have to open it up to check.

jseliger 11y ago

Those are excellent and I used one for years: http://jakeseliger.com/2008/05/07/product-review-unicomp-customizer-keyboard/ http://jakeseliger.com/2008/05/07/product-review-unicomp-cus... before switching to a Kinesis Advantage. Though I like the keyfeel of the Model M better, the ergonomics of the Kinesis are better.

melling 11y ago
Can anyone discuss the ergonomics of the Kinesis? It has MX Brown Cherry switches which are easier on the hands, for example. I've often wonder if its unique shape had proven benefits. Many people have tried using it but have given up. Is it better than an ErgoDox, for instance? http://ergodox.org http://ergodox.org
- mohaine 11y ago
  Looks similar. Keys are straight up and down which is the same. Biggest difference would the lack of curve and built in no wrist rests. Oh and it is missing functions keys which means I could never use this.... The kinesis has crappy function keys but at least it has them. Can't program with an IDE without then.
  - lenish 11y ago
    >Oh and it is missing functions keys which means I could never use this.... There are 5 rows of keys on each hand, just like a standard QWERTY keyboard with a function key row, you just have to place them along the bottom row instead of the top. The problem, I guess, is that there's only 10 keys along the bottom row, but you could place F11 and F12 on one of the many extra keys. Keep in mind they're programmable, and you can have different layers and modifiers that just exist in the keyboard itself.
- Scramblejams 11y ago
  I've tried no other ergonomic keyboards but the Kinesis Advantage saved my programming career when a difficult job brought on a bout of RSI. Think it's about 9 years old now and still going strong. Better function keys would be appreciated, though.

paulmd 11y ago

I love what Unicomp is doing. The Model Ms are fantastic keyboards and I have several that I use for programming. They're indestructible and you can maintain and repair them very easily. You can grab keyboards off eBay and swap them out for parts, or source new parts from Unicomp. I really wish they would offer the full-size in addition to the Compact models. I have big hands and the full-size are much more comfortable for me. Any of the hipster micro-keyboards are obviously right out as well, sadly. My main work keyboard is a black M13 with the TrackPoint II. The TrackPoint has a very slow cursor speed is not very useful on modern high-res screens. I'd much rather have the new type of TrackPoint that Unicomp offers. It's OK if you turn the pointer speed all the way up, but then you lose resolution and it's hard to use a mouse with that speed. So far I haven't found a working app that lets you use different pointer speeds for different mice. Some claim to do it but I couldn't make them work. I may bang something out at some point that latches into high-speed mode if you type and drops to low-speed mode after a few seconds without typing or moving the cursor. Or maybe I could do more fine-grained control on Linux.

rbanffy 11y ago
> you can maintain and repair them very easily I recently had to send mine (a PC 122 layout unit) back to Unicomp when the left Alt key stuck internally at the pressed position. The pictures of the disassembly of a Model M didn't look too encouraging, so I thought it'd be best to send it back to the factory so someone familiar with the design could repair it. Would you like to point to some resources so I can do it myself the next time it fails?

apricot 11y ago

Ah, the Model M. Still have mine from 1990, used it for decades, and I would still be using it at home if it were not for the fact that it was so loud it woke up my newborn son sleeping in the other room. So I got a quieter keyboard (Realforce 87U that I picked up in Japan, very different key feeling but in a good way) and put the Model M in storage. My son is now 7 years old, loves Minecraft, and wants to learn programming. So we've been spending some quality father-son time on pcpartpicker.com lately, in search of the best computer he can afford. "No need to buy a keyboard," I told him, "I've got exactly what you need." You never actually own a Model M. You merely look after it for the next generation.

gcb0 11y ago
if you got a real force to replace a buckling spring you didn't do your homework :) torpe keys are louder than cherry, mostly because cherry you can use heavier key caps and dampening rubber all around. there are rumors of topre with dampening on the up motion, but even finding regular topre is already difficult enough (also imported mines from Japan, like you) also, the feeling from tactile cherries are closer the bucking spring
- apricot 11y ago
  Just because I love buckling springs doesn't mean I don't also enjoy Topre. I'm far from monogamous when it comes to keyboards. And I most certainly did my homework, which in my case meant walking around in Den-Den Town (Osaka's version of Akihabara) trying keyboards at various stores. In the end, my two favorites were a Fujitsu Libertouch and the Realforce I got. When you say "Topre keys are louder than cherry", I guess you're excluding the clicky cherries. I have a Filco with blue cherries at work, and it's much louder than my Realforce.
- mindslight 11y ago
  I made up-dampers for my Novatouch out of that really thin plastic-foam packing/wrapping material (0.022"). Craft foam (0.075") and heat shrunk craft foam were too thick. Now I've just got to get an MSP430 programmer and see if I can fix this braindead no-scancode "FN" key.

MichaelGG 11y ago

If only they'd make a split layout ergo design. One of the only mechanical ergos out there (available today) is the Matias Ergo Pro. And it's got a lot of dumb design decisions. Like dedicated copy/cut etc keys that just send Ctrl-C Ctrl-X etc. Bizarre. Strange placement of Ctrl that still, after months of usage, cause me typos. And a remote Esc that hurts more than normal to reach. Among other silly key placements. All of these for no good reason. A 20 minute revision during design and it'd be a perfect keyboard. I'd get a Kinesis but they're so huge and 90s looking. Most promising looking device is the Keyboardio, but that'll be a year or so.

benburton 11y ago
Best bet is to wait for Massdrop to relaunch that ErgoDox kit: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox?mode=guest_open https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox?mode=guest_open
- pimlottc 11y ago
  Looks nice, any idea what the cost was/would be?
  - mavrc 11y ago
    Usually in the $250 range, unless you decide to go completely nuts on the keycaps. Then, well, the sky's the limit these days.
- alxndr 11y ago
  If you're not looking forward to doing the soldering yourself, check out the Ergodox EZ campaign (funded but still open): https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ergodox-ez-an-incredible-mechanical-keyboard https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ergodox-ez-an-incredible-...
  - benburton 11y ago
    Looks beautiful, but I think I've blown my "keyboard budget" for the next year :)

kw71 11y ago

I used to like the Model M keyboard, before I knew anything. When my wrists started hurting, I discovered the cherry keyboards and that the Model M requires a disgustingly large force to depress the keys. My M's are now rusting in the garage, and I'm using cherry browns pain free. Also I have extra keys with hardware macros, which aren't dependent on some host software to work properly, so I can activate my console switch, etc.

some-guy 11y ago

The only problem with this keyboard: anyone I use it around absolutely hates the noise. Either my co-workers at work or my girlfriend at home.

kpil 11y ago
When I asked my co-workers, I got the whole range from "it sounds homely and pleasant" (quite a few actually) to one guy that asked to sit as far away as possible. I actually flossed it and added some padding, so now it's slightly less loud, but I still got one complaint... But eventually I decided that I can't make everyone happy. So I just rattle away in blissful enjoyment instead.