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This article helped me understand a frustration I have with millennials. >>I feel powerless in a community that had a “Code of Conflict” without a specific lis

This article helped me understand a frustration I have with millennials. >>I feel powerless in a community that had a “Code of Conflict” without a specific list of behaviors to avoid and a community with no teeth to enforce it. It never would have occurred to me that I was ever entitled to procedures for handling conflict in a community. I have operated under the following rule for community bullshit: Endure it, fix it, or abandon it. The fashionable "sad departure" missive just reeks of entitlement. Reading these notes make me feel embarrassed for the author. Younger people seem to be celebrating a style that whines about community. It isn't leadership.

pron 11y ago
> It never would have occurred to me that I was ever entitled to... No one thinks they're entitled. They're just saying what they think is right. > procedures for handling conflict in a community You're missing the point. If the community was well-behaved procedure wouldn't be necessary. It's not procedure she's asking for -- it's decent behavior -- and suggesting that perhaps procedure is a possible fix. If it isn't, we'll try others. > Endure it, fix it, or abandon it. First she endured it (for about 8 years), then she tried to fix it ([1], [2]), and now she's leaving. You've found a true successor. > Younger people seem to be celebrating a style that whines about community Tell that to Martin Luther. Also, why use that word "whine"? Linus whines about a whole lot of stuff yet no one calls him a whiner. [1]: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/linus-torvalds-defends-his-right-to-shame-linux-kernel-developers/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/linus-... [2]: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/22/sarah-sharp http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/22/sarah-sharp
- droopybuns 11y ago
  >>No one thinks they're entitled. Said every entitled person everywhere. This also applies to people who talk about privilege. >>Also, why use that word "whine"? Stylewise: "Disappointment" demonstrates leadership. "Sad" demonstrates entitlement. >>Linus [...] I don't think anyone who leads people should defend Linus' behavior. He's an asshole that has provided a powerful, free & useful kernel. Until there is a better FOSS alternative to Linux, it makes sense to endure him. But deciding to defend his behavior indicates a lack of compassion for people's feelings.
  - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
    Until there is a better FOSS alternative to Linux You mean there isn't?
wpietri 11y ago
It seems to me that she has followed your advice. She tried fixing it while enduring it; now she's abandoning it in a way that she hopes might fix the broader problem. A great way to fix community issues is establishing codes of conduct making it clear what the norms are. This isn't just millennial; some of our oldest documents are community codes of conduct. E.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi Personally, as an old, I think it's great that people like Sarah Sharp are stepping up and pushing for better working environments. And as a Linux user, I want my kernel built by the best technical people, not the ones best able to put up with aggressive bullshit. This is one in a long string of complaints from people who have left kernel work, and it makes me worried for the kernel's future.
Manishearth 11y ago
> Endure it, fix it, or abandon it. [..] > that whines about community Sarah Sharp is one of the people who has tried to fix this the most. I have great respect for her, and while I'm sad to see her go I'm not surprised -- being one of the few people pushing against such toxicity must be stressful.
easuter 11y ago
> Reading these notes make me feel embarrassed for the author. If that post made you feel this way, then her follow-up article will have you cringing and wincing: http://sarah.thesharps.us/2015/10/06/what-makes-a-good-community/ http://sarah.thesharps.us/2015/10/06/what-makes-a-good-commu... Aparently she knows for a fact that all those points definitely make a good community, despite never having run one the size and scale of the Linux kernel project. Pure arrogance and entitlement.

pron 11y ago

> It never would have occurred to me that I was ever entitled to... No one thinks they're entitled. They're just saying what they think is right. > procedures for handling conflict in a community You're missing the point. If the community was well-behaved procedure wouldn't be necessary. It's not procedure she's asking for -- it's decent behavior -- and suggesting that perhaps procedure is a possible fix. If it isn't, we'll try others. > Endure it, fix it, or abandon it. First she endured it (for about 8 years), then she tried to fix it ([1], [2]), and now she's leaving. You've found a true successor. > Younger people seem to be celebrating a style that whines about community Tell that to Martin Luther. Also, why use that word "whine"? Linus whines about a whole lot of stuff yet no one calls him a whiner. [1]: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/linus-torvalds-defends-his-right-to-shame-linux-kernel-developers/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/linus-... [2]: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/22/sarah-sharp http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/22/sarah-sharp

droopybuns 11y ago
>>No one thinks they're entitled. Said every entitled person everywhere. This also applies to people who talk about privilege. >>Also, why use that word "whine"? Stylewise: "Disappointment" demonstrates leadership. "Sad" demonstrates entitlement. >>Linus [...] I don't think anyone who leads people should defend Linus' behavior. He's an asshole that has provided a powerful, free & useful kernel. Until there is a better FOSS alternative to Linux, it makes sense to endure him. But deciding to defend his behavior indicates a lack of compassion for people's feelings.
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  Until there is a better FOSS alternative to Linux You mean there isn't?

wpietri 11y ago

It seems to me that she has followed your advice. She tried fixing it while enduring it; now she's abandoning it in a way that she hopes might fix the broader problem. A great way to fix community issues is establishing codes of conduct making it clear what the norms are. This isn't just millennial; some of our oldest documents are community codes of conduct. E.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi Personally, as an old, I think it's great that people like Sarah Sharp are stepping up and pushing for better working environments. And as a Linux user, I want my kernel built by the best technical people, not the ones best able to put up with aggressive bullshit. This is one in a long string of complaints from people who have left kernel work, and it makes me worried for the kernel's future.

Manishearth 11y ago

> Endure it, fix it, or abandon it. [..] > that whines about community Sarah Sharp is one of the people who has tried to fix this the most. I have great respect for her, and while I'm sad to see her go I'm not surprised -- being one of the few people pushing against such toxicity must be stressful.

easuter 11y ago

> Reading these notes make me feel embarrassed for the author. If that post made you feel this way, then her follow-up article will have you cringing and wincing: http://sarah.thesharps.us/2015/10/06/what-makes-a-good-community/ http://sarah.thesharps.us/2015/10/06/what-makes-a-good-commu... Aparently she knows for a fact that all those points definitely make a good community, despite never having run one the size and scale of the Linux kernel project. Pure arrogance and entitlement.