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One thing I like to reflect on when seeing this pictures is the vast difference in the number of people present at the hajj. It's truly orders of magnitude more
by tboyd47 11y ago
One thing I like to reflect on when seeing this pictures is the vast difference in the number of people present at the hajj. It's truly orders of magnitude more.
This huge increase in pilgrims over the last century is because of new technology like air travel, and the peace the world has experienced over the past few decades that allows people to move freely across the world. But it is due to the efforts of the Saudis to expand the masjid, build camps at Mina, allow hotels to be constructed, modernize the facilities, etc. that every person is able to actually perform the rites of hajj at the proper times. Hajj consists of a number of rites that have to be performed in certain places at certain times on certain days. Think about what it takes to organize millions of people trying to do this. It's very different than organizing thousands, or tens of thousands. You have to accommodate all their sleeping arrangements. You have to provide enough space for marketplaces so they can get something to eat. You have to widen the roads, air condition the facilities, make sure each group leaves at their own time, etc.
It's true that the Saudis aren't perfect, and they make mistakes, but my point is that it's easy to get the impression from the massive construction projects that they are just trying to make another Dubai or Olympics. But really, there is a spiritual purpose behind it, not connected to money, and there is also a lot going on behind the scenes that you can't see in the pictures. It would be easier for the Saudis to just restrict the visas to a tiny fraction and not go through with all of the construction and organizing, but they are making the effort as you can see. I know this is not going to be a popular comment here but I'm just trying to offset all the negative comments with some positive.
- JoeAltmaier 11y agoWait ... "Not connected to money"?! How is this different from building a movie theatre complex, or Disneyland? Why would we imagine its not all about profit at root? I'm not that generous.
- tboyd47 11y agoHajj visas are very restrictive. You aren't allowed to go anywhere except Mecca and Medina, and you're only allowed to stay for the length of hajj plus a few days extra for travel. And many of the people who go to hajj have spent their life's savings just to get there. So not a lot of foreign money is flowing, at least not compared to those other places.
- JoeAltmaier 11y agoForeign == non-Muslim? Because somebody is staying in those hotels and its not locals, right?
- niyazpk 11y agoNot going to compare to disneyland, but compared to many other religious places, for example, there is no way to donate money for the cause of Hajj anywhere in Mecca or Medina. The government does not ask for your money, nor does it encourage you to donate money at the mosques. Say what you want about the Saudis, Hajj is not seen from a pure profitability standpoint as far as I can see.
- JoeAltmaier 11y agoConfused: who is staying in those hotels? They are free? The food is free? The travel? In one breath we hear how folks spend their life savings, and in the next that it is all a charity. Something isn't adding up.
- subliminalpanda 11y agoThe hotels are definitely not free. It's there to cater to the wealthy while the rest toil away in the heat. The Saudis destroyed many sites associated with the early history of Islam to make those expansions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_heritage_sites_in_Saudi_Arabia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_h...). It's rather unfortunate that Mecca is in Saudi Arabia as it gives them free reign to preach their Salafi/Wahabi ideologies and no one else. I come from a Shia family and many of my relatives who have gone to pilgrimage and complained of abuse by the religious police there for being in a different sect.
- yawz 11y ago> "not connected to money..." Kaaba has always been about trade/commerce/money, since well before Muhammad and Islam. It is not a coincidence that Muhammad's tribe had the control of Kaaba where pagan pilgrims came before Islam to revere their many gods (whose representations (statues, icons, figures, etc.) were placed around Kaaba). And, very conveniently, it remained to be a holy place in Islam where each and every Muslim who can afford it must visit at least once during their lifetime.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- azth 11y agoThe Ka'bah was (re-)built by Abraham and his son, who were Muslims (i.e. Submitters). The fact that there was polytheistic practices around it at some point in time does not change the fact that it is a place of worship for Muslims.
- yawz 11y ago> The Ka'bah was (re-)built by Abraham and his son... That is mythological not truly historical.
- azth 11y agoCitation needed. In any case, even the non-Muslim Arabs at the time also acknowledged this fact. As such, given that Prophet Muhammad, Peace be upon him, is a descendant of Abraham, Peace be upon him, and both are Muslims, it follows that they would have similar traditions, coming from the same source. Reclaiming the Ka'abah as a place of worship for Muslims is in accordance with this.
- yawz 11y agoA myth is an attempt to explain mysteries, supernatural events, and cultural traditions. Sometimes sacred in nature, a myth can involve gods or other supernatural creatures. The fact that the same sources that assert the existence of figures such as Abraham and Ishmael also state that an angel talked to Ishmael's pregnant mother and that the Sakina (a spirit sent by God) or Gabriel guided father and son to the location of the Kaaba, etc. make this story mythical.
- drzaiusapelord 11y ago> there is a spiritual purpose behind it, not connected to money, Religion, especially in what's pretty much a theocracy-lite, is very much tied to power and money. SA is swimming in oil money, so it doesn't need to perform some crass commercialization (although I'm sure the restaurant, transportation, and hotel industry benefit directly), but maintaining and consolidating power is part of this game. Humanity didn't start religion because we felt unusually generous. Its a way to gain power and resources by exploiting various human desires like the need for meaning, the need for afterlife beliefs, etc.
- YZF 11y ago"IEA (2010) defined Middle East as Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, United Arab Emirates and Yemen.[1] According to this definition, Middle East population was 127 million in 1990 and 205 million in 2010." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Middle_East https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Middle_Eas...
- asadlionpk 11y agoThey are doing good job on scaling it but are actually applying all the tourism practices to Makkah and ruining the essence of Hajj. They have commercialized everything which is completely opposite of what Hajj is supposed to be.