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New Perl 6 Homepage
- zoidb 11y agolove the logo, hate the mustard yellow on gray.
- cstuder 11y agoThen you're probably not going to like the 'Getting Started' page: http://perl6.org/getting-started/ http://perl6.org/getting-started/ (I've opened an issue.) Update: Fixed now.
- Doctor_Fegg 11y ago"Because an unreadable language deserves an unreadable website" (sorry, cheap shot. I like Perl really)
- sigzero 11y agoThanks, yes. That one is awful.
- geofft 11y agoThe parts of this website that everyone is having opinions about (the spokesbug, the "Fisher Price look and feel", etc.) are not particularly new. It seems they date to the first version of the Perl 6 home page from 2009: https://web.archive.org/web/20090901185334/http://perl6.org/ https://web.archive.org/web/20090901185334/http://perl6.org/
- zoner 11y agoSo is it just a custom coloured version of Twitter Bootstrap?
- robotnoises 11y agoYes it is: http://i.imgur.com/sJjJwSa.png http://i.imgur.com/sJjJwSa.png
- assface 11y agoThis ship sailed 10 years ago. It's too little too late. The real question is whether python3 can avoid the same fate...
- sigzero 11y agoPython 3 is not even in the same boat. Please stop trolling.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- baldfat 11y agoI would say that they are different issues. Python 3 really is almost 7 years old and it is moving forward. The Wall of Shame has become the Wall of Super Powers. The scope for Python 3 was different than Perl 6. Perl 6 was to be ageless and for all time. Python 3 was a fix to a broken issues in Python 2 having redundant ways to do things. > Python 3.0 was developed with the same philosophy as in prior versions. However, as Python had accumulated new and redundant ways to program the same task, Python 3.0 had an emphasis on removing duplicative constructs and modules, in keeping with "There should be one— and preferably only one —obvious way to do it". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Python https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Python I don't mind there being more than one way to do things.
- zoffix222 11y agoA completely different issue. Python3 is an upgrade to Python2. Perl 6 became a new language, while Perl 5 still chugging along at full speed (latest stable release was just 4 months ago).
- mrmondo 11y agoNot sure who thought that colour scheme was going to win people over. Wouldn't it make more sense to have something of a cooler temperature that's more likely to be easy on the eyes?
- zoffix222 11y agoNo, because the monotone, cool, corporate colour scheme is not reflective of the fun and hugtastic Perl 6 community.
- colinramsay 11y agoThis reminds me of when jQuery had a cartoon ninja on their homepage. Am I seriously looking at a page targeted at grown adults with a talking butterfly on it?
- yunghiladoste 11y agoAlso, 'spunky little sister' doesn't mean the same thing in the UK as the US...
- colinramsay 11y agoYeah that did occur to me too, but either way "spunky" is never a word I want to see when I'm reading about a programming language.
- wingerlang 11y agoSimilar feelings towards splunk.com (crash reporting etc for mobile apps etc)
- Ulti 11y agoWell it can by context, but yeah sniggering does abound. At least she doesn't also have a "fanny pack" in the logo too.
- yitchelle 11y agoDid they really go through the exercise of trade marking the butterfly logo? They must be serious about this style of branding this version of Perl.
- JamesMcMinn 11y agoProbably not, you can legally stick a TM symbol on just about anything without submitting any paperwork. There's a joke that TM stands for Totally Meaningless because it offers zero protection.
- yitchelle 11y agoIt is optimised for fun. http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/optimized-for-fun.html http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/optimized-for-fun.html
- Ulti 11y agoOOC how many people would be interested in a Perl 6 Corporate Look n' Feel type site? Where everything is just designed to be boring and on message for production use in a business setting. Front page has Docker deployment and continuous integration setup steps etc. (that all exists and works FYI) Everything would be muted colours and mostly cloning the style of https://www.haskell.org/ https://www.haskell.org/ or https://nodejs.org/en/ https://nodejs.org/en/ or even as spartan as https://www.rust-lang.org/ https://www.rust-lang.org/ I love Perl 6 but I utterly reject and hate the Fisher Price look and feel. It makes it impossible to have a serious conversation at work about Perl 6 or get anyone less than light hearted to care about taking a look at the language. There is so much great stuff there, and basically none of it is for children. I'd go as far to say as Perl 6 would be an awful language for very young children. Something like Scratch has put the effort in there. The idea of Camelia being friendly to kids is a great sentiment... but thats as deep as anyone's effort or considerations have gone for children learning to program in the Perl 6 community. IMHO anyone who feels that's a harsh assessment has probably never attempted to teach programming to young children, I have! It's a near impossible task, and the last thing you touch is syntax or documentation websites. I cant help but feel Camelia and her scheming colours are ham stringing adoption by anyone else looking in from their cubicle or startup loft. Maybe I'm very wrong and everyone loves the bug?
- robotnoises 11y agoI love the bug, but it's because I have a two year old daughter.
- Ulti 11y agoI love the bug too really :'( I have a Moomin on my desk, I have the aesthetic sensibility of a two year old. The problem is no one else I work with does. That is a problem, at least for me.
- david-given 11y ago...a few years ago I was in Beijing and was utterly gobsmacked to see, in a ludicrously expensive fashion shop in the heart of the most expensive shopping mall in the city, a shirt with Little My on it. So apparently we're not the only ones.
- __BrianDGLS__ 11y agoThis looks so awful. How can you take the language seriously with a homepage lke that?
- zoffix222 11y agoYou don't. You take it in a fun way, the way it's meant to be :) And if you have any specifics on what looks "so awful", feel free to file an Issue on github: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/issues https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/issues
- wiremine 11y agoNice to see Perl 6 coming along! Even if it doesn't garner the developer base Perl 5 had back in the 90s, I think Perl 6 is important to push the art of programming along. Kudos to the Perl 6 team. - Would be nice to make the intro copy more informative. Like: why would I want to use it as a developer? What does it look like compared to my favorite language? - Really like the examples, especially since I haven't done much with Perl 6. However, like Perl 5, it still looks like parseable line noise to the untrained eye. Would be nice to have some better explanations to go along with the code. Maybe not right on the homepage, but at least linked into it. - Would like to see the "For Newcomers" links on the "Documentation" page on the homepage.
- woolfy666 11y agoCompliments to the Perl 6 community. Nice new layout and design.
- zoffix222 11y agoThank you!
- robotnoises 11y agoLarry Wall's discussion on the logo, Camelia (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/perl6/mu/master/misc/camelia.txt https://raw.githubusercontent.com/perl6/mu/master/misc/camel...): Discussion Highlights ===================== From: Larry Wall Date: March 24, 2009 10:25 Subject: Re: Logo considerations [...] I think there's a tendency to go way too abstract in most of these proposals. I want something with gut appeal on the order of Tux. In particular I want a logo for Perl 6 that is: Fun Cool Cute Named Lively Punable Personal Concrete Symmetric Asymmetric Attractive Relational Metamorphic Decolorizable Shrinkable to textual icon Shrinkable to graphical icon In addition, you can extend just about anything by attaching "P6" wings to it. I also take it as a given that we want to discourage misogyny in our community. You of the masculine persuasion should consider it an opportunity to show off your sensitive side. :) Hence, Camelia. Larry
- smonff 11y agoHappy to see someone who discourage misogyny in his wishes for a new logo :-)
- Zikes 11y agoI don't get it. How does disliking a butterfly logo equate to hating women?
- autoreleasepool 11y agoIt doesn't. The logo is more childish than it is feminine anyways.
- debacle 11y agoThe examples on the homepage kind of underscore how little like Perl Perl 6 actually is.
- nocman 11y agoReally? I don't see it that way at all. I mean, it's not that much different than all the new changes to C++ in the last 10 years (compared to the C++ from 10 years ago). Yeah, there are a bunch of new things, but it still looks Perlish to me.
- shaxpeer 11y agoI'm encouraged that this website looks this bad. We're in the last seizures before dying of Perl. Seriously, look around at the other options, they're all better. All of them. I'm so tired of this delusional community. Let Perl be legacy; turn the lights out.
- hahainternet 11y ago> Seriously, look around at the other options, they're all better. All of them. What's a better option to Perl 5 or Perl 6 that doesn't have associated downsides?
- shaxpeer 11y agoYou get a gold star. That's a magical comment. #experttrolling
- nosnos 11y agoSad but true.
- motoboi 11y agoThe Perl community makes Perl for... the Perl community. If it grows back to its former glory, great. If not, we keep using it anyway. Because, you know, hackers.
- shaxpeer 11y agoLOL stop calling yourself "hackers". It's a dead giveaway that you are in no-way competent.
- estefan 11y agoI'm all for live and let live... until I find some perl on a legacy box I have to maintain :-(
- shaxpeer 11y agoAgreed. :)
- estefan 11y agoObviously targetting the preschool market. Get 'em young!
- Diederich 11y agoLarry Wall is speaking at the San Francisco Perl Mongers meeting this evening. Along with most of my team at work, my wife and I are going to attend this event. The biggest of the three big items remaining in Perl 6 development before GA has been completed, give or take. (The Great List Refactor) I'm not 100% sure of the status of the other two, but I think the Unicode stuff is also well on its way as well. My prediction is that he will be announcing some kind of Perl 6 1.0 pre-release this evening. Given that Perl 5 has been helping me pay my bills for the past 22 years, I'm more than a little excited!
- untothebreach 11y agoIs it usable, performance-wise, in production yet? The company I work for (also a perl 5 shop) gave MoarVM a try about a year ago with a toy application, and it was just unusably slow. The task was just receiving some JSON on a TCP socket, decoding it, and sending a static response, but the round trip time was large enough that the server that made the request marked the transaction as 'timed-out' every time. (This is a task that we can do with perl 5 and still have time left over)
- Diederich 11y agoMoar has come light-years over the past 12 months. It very well might be! Give it another try. I recall a few months ago that a hand full of the benchmarks on JVM were actually running faster than Perl 5.latest, though most were slower. Perl 6 is far, far more optimizable than Perl 5, and also most similar languages. The long-term focus on correct first is finally paying off.
- untothebreach 11y agoThanks for the info, I will give it another try.
- pvaldes 11y agoOne of the problems with Perl6 is an excesive proliferation of cute pets and pet names to learn before to start. A second one is that those names are unrelated and random, without a clear relationship between them or with what they can really do. Fit your tutorial to the desired age of your audience. If something is a virtual machine just start your tutorial calling it 'our virtual machine'. Explain briefly what is a virtual machine, instead to say that is a butterfly with violet wings or something (not everybody knows what to do with this stuff). If is a compiler, call it compiler and go as quick as possible to the next step of the tutorial before to lose the interest of your audience. Is not 'how is named' or 'how cute', is 'what can you do with it' and 'how to use it with the other pieces' what matters. If you want to use names, at least try to be consistent with the names and designs. If you want to name something 'rakudo' and want to show your sensitive side, great, name the other thing 'sazanka' or so. Something nice, humble, but useful at the same time. Something that can helps you to make a mental image of the whole picture of this 'paradise' landscape in a couple of seconds.
- Grim_Reaper 11y agoI agree on you. I read Perl tutorial, its like reading an essay. Not telling you the straight to the point answer. Perl tutorial really bad.
- ceronman 11y agoOn of the examples in the main page is how to create a custom postfix operator using a weird unicode symbol. It doesn't get more perlish than that!
- the-owlery 11y agoThe page looks fine. I think the "Fun" and "Whatever" pages could be merged. The front page should probably explain more why someone would want to use the language. That said though, none of this is going to matter unless there's a good tutorial. Nothing currently available is cutting it as a tutorial.
- Grim_Reaper 11y agoHoly Shit! Childish design of Perl 6 site. I think the Perl 6 dev core is not serious. Perl 6 is an ugly language! Funny thing about Perl 6 syntax and feature are reinvented the wheel all over again like Perl 6 'gather' and 'take' syntax, Only Perl 6 have that syntax. A lot of Reinventing the wheel in syntax and feature make Perl 6 a very bad language.
- virtualsue 11y agoPoor Grim_Reaper. Nothing to do all day but post complaints in a Perl 6 thread. I hope you can find some sort of purpose in life, friend.