4 ms·

I'm sure most developed countries do that by fining businesses for false advertising, which would incentivise the businesses to pass the punishment on to the s

I'm sure most developed countries do that by fining businesses for false advertising, which would incentivise the businesses to pass the punishment on to the staff who did it. Lies aren't really the problem though, fooling us with truths we don't understand is. About tobacco causing lung cancer? That's been widely known for decades but rates of smoking are increasing globally so it's not just false information.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
> I'm sure most developed countries do that by fining businesses for false advertising, which would incentivise the businesses to pass the punishment on to the staff who did it. In principle yes, but in practice the false advertising laws are way, way too lax. > Lies aren't really the problem though, fooling us with truths we don't understand is. True, but companies now tell bullshit that is so obvious to see through that it's often very clear whether they want to scam you or not. This again should be punished but currently isn't.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  Why not just ban advertising altogether? Sounds extreme perhaps, but think about it... Isn't advertising all about trying to convince you to buy something you don't need? If you needed it (or even just wanted it), you wouldn't need advertising, you'd seek it out on your own.
  - Super_Jambo 11y ago
    The counter argument to this is that advertising serves useful discovery for new technologies. Which is of course 99% bullshit since the vast majority is emotive and manipulative. But to avoid this you could make advertising regulation 'white list' style. Only text based, only non-emotive descriptions of product function. I mean take cola, their adverts are largely around the subtext of 'if you drink this you will have more friends, if you do not drink this you will be more lonely.' Of course this is never stated openly it's all in the subtext which given Colas efficient market defying profits seems to be incredibly effective.
    - bufordsharkley 11y ago
      > non-emotive descriptions of product function. This sounds very similar to the rules that non-commercial stations are bound to, per the FCC. Fines can be issued for underwriting spots that contain calls to action, price information, qualitative claims, or are simply too long.[0] [0] http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/2009/01/articles/fcc-fines-for-noncommercial-stations-having-underwriting-announcements-that-were-too-commercial-even-where-the-station-received-no-money/ http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/2009/01/articles/fcc-fines-f...
  - pdpi 11y ago
    That's throwing out the baby with the bath water. Advertising serves a modicum of a public good, in that it's informative. If, say, I buy some fabric conditioner and quite like its effects but think it smells too intense, I might change brand. If I see an ad for the old brand saying 'now with a new and improved fragrance', that's genuinely useful information. Perhaps the problem I had with an otherwise satisfactory product is gone. There's plenty of truly bad advertising out there and it definitely needs stronger regulation, but lets not be overly enthusiastic about it.
    - ZenoArrow 11y ago
      > "If I see an ad for the old brand saying 'now with a new and improved fragrance', that's genuinely useful information. Perhaps the problem I had with an otherwise satisfactory product is gone." If that's the only reason to keep advertising, it can easily be replaced by independent consumer advice, similar to 'Which?' magazine but with a much wider remit... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Which%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Which%3F
joosters 11y ago
But smoking is increasing in countries where the health effects aren't as well known, and decreasing in countries where they are. Also, smoking companies spent a very long time making sure that the now widely-known health effects weren't so widely known. Lies and confusion. Some of it still happens, especially in '3rd world' countries.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  They adjust their strategies to local conditions. In EU they can do little. Elsewhere, they actually sue countries[0] to keep their rights to advertise death. [0] - https://youtu.be/6UsHHOCH4q8?t=486 https://youtu.be/6UsHHOCH4q8?t=486
- cafard 11y ago
  I work with a fair number of expensively-educated persons in their 20s. A surprising number of them smoke.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    A surprising amount of doctors and paramedics smoke. It apparently helps them to deal with the stresses of the job.

TeMPOraL 11y ago

> I'm sure most developed countries do that by fining businesses for false advertising, which would incentivise the businesses to pass the punishment on to the staff who did it. In principle yes, but in practice the false advertising laws are way, way too lax. > Lies aren't really the problem though, fooling us with truths we don't understand is. True, but companies now tell bullshit that is so obvious to see through that it's often very clear whether they want to scam you or not. This again should be punished but currently isn't.

ZenoArrow 11y ago
Why not just ban advertising altogether? Sounds extreme perhaps, but think about it... Isn't advertising all about trying to convince you to buy something you don't need? If you needed it (or even just wanted it), you wouldn't need advertising, you'd seek it out on your own.
- Super_Jambo 11y ago
  The counter argument to this is that advertising serves useful discovery for new technologies. Which is of course 99% bullshit since the vast majority is emotive and manipulative. But to avoid this you could make advertising regulation 'white list' style. Only text based, only non-emotive descriptions of product function. I mean take cola, their adverts are largely around the subtext of 'if you drink this you will have more friends, if you do not drink this you will be more lonely.' Of course this is never stated openly it's all in the subtext which given Colas efficient market defying profits seems to be incredibly effective.
  - bufordsharkley 11y ago
    > non-emotive descriptions of product function. This sounds very similar to the rules that non-commercial stations are bound to, per the FCC. Fines can be issued for underwriting spots that contain calls to action, price information, qualitative claims, or are simply too long.[0] [0] http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/2009/01/articles/fcc-fines-for-noncommercial-stations-having-underwriting-announcements-that-were-too-commercial-even-where-the-station-received-no-money/ http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/2009/01/articles/fcc-fines-f...
- pdpi 11y ago
  That's throwing out the baby with the bath water. Advertising serves a modicum of a public good, in that it's informative. If, say, I buy some fabric conditioner and quite like its effects but think it smells too intense, I might change brand. If I see an ad for the old brand saying 'now with a new and improved fragrance', that's genuinely useful information. Perhaps the problem I had with an otherwise satisfactory product is gone. There's plenty of truly bad advertising out there and it definitely needs stronger regulation, but lets not be overly enthusiastic about it.
  - ZenoArrow 11y ago
    > "If I see an ad for the old brand saying 'now with a new and improved fragrance', that's genuinely useful information. Perhaps the problem I had with an otherwise satisfactory product is gone." If that's the only reason to keep advertising, it can easily be replaced by independent consumer advice, similar to 'Which?' magazine but with a much wider remit... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Which%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Which%3F

joosters 11y ago

But smoking is increasing in countries where the health effects aren't as well known, and decreasing in countries where they are. Also, smoking companies spent a very long time making sure that the now widely-known health effects weren't so widely known. Lies and confusion. Some of it still happens, especially in '3rd world' countries.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
They adjust their strategies to local conditions. In EU they can do little. Elsewhere, they actually sue countries[0] to keep their rights to advertise death. [0] - https://youtu.be/6UsHHOCH4q8?t=486 https://youtu.be/6UsHHOCH4q8?t=486
cafard 11y ago
I work with a fair number of expensively-educated persons in their 20s. A surprising number of them smoke.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  A surprising amount of doctors and paramedics smoke. It apparently helps them to deal with the stresses of the job.