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"according to medieval writers and other accounts" I don't see mentioned anywhere in the page that taking accounts written in middle ages is going to incur ser

"according to medieval writers and other accounts" I don't see mentioned anywhere in the page that taking accounts written in middle ages is going to incur serious bias and how author corrected for it. not many were able to write and chances are if you were one of those you had a lifestyle that involved far less plowing. anyway, same sources different conclusions https://medievalisterrant.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/cats-as-pets-in-the-middle-ages/ https://medievalisterrant.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/cats-as-p... witchcraft at that time was the terrorist of modern ages, anyone could be it, and dog were counted as familiar as much as cats. if you lived closed to a city, it was a dangerous proposition, but then even floating on water was a 'proof' - sure you didn't want to be caught in the fisher nets and burned at a stake, but I don't see much of the rural population going off without cats - that is, if they wanted to survive winters. sadly it seems there are very few studies based on more than writing (i.e. bones - https://www.academia.edu/1061079/LUFF_R._M._MORENO-GARC%C3%8DA_M._1995_._Killing_cats_in_the_Medieval_Period._An_unusual_episode_in_the_history_of_Cambridge_England._Archaeofauna_4_93-114 https://www.academia.edu/1061079/LUFF_R._M._MORENO-GARC%C3%8... ) bottom line: there is quite a disconnect between what they were writing and what they were doing.

jon-wood 11y ago
Sadly this is often the way with studying the medieval period, when records were sparse, and most people couldn't write. My guess is they didn't explicitly state it because as a magazine for medievalists their readership is going to implicitly understand that written accounts can't be taken as the opinion of everyone. Having said that, it appears cats weren't universally hated, a quick Google reveals this blog post[1] about cats and their relationship with scribes. It seems that there was a similar feel to many modern cat owners, the well known affection for an animal that will not be told what to do.
- dalke 11y ago
  "it appears cats weren't universally hated, a quick Google reveals" Or you could copy&paste from the linked-to article: > Not all medieval Europeans hated cats. There are many accounts of cats being kept as pets, including by nuns.
  - baldfat 11y ago
    As a former falculty memeber and Theological Seminary student. Academia has a serious issue with quality scholarship. Most people focus on one thing and make bold unsupported grabs. My cool little twist on everyone else (I was into Historical Theology which is the most geeky of Theological disciplines) I liked to show the art of whatever period I was talking about. It would debunk 50% of the crappy research all the time, and this time it didn't fail. Warning slide show for ads but it is a slide show of cats in the Middle Ages. http://www.medievalists.net/2015/08/08/cat-pics-from-the-middle-ages/ http://www.medievalists.net/2015/08/08/cat-pics-from-the-mid... Cats as pets, guardians against mice, etc. This myth started about cats because people thought Middle Age people were stupid and that they got the wrong idea about cats and that killed them because then the plague came. If the stupid people just had cats no plague.
    - kingmanaz 11y ago
      >This myth started about cats because people thought Middle Age people were stupid and that they got the wrong idea about cats and that killed them because then the plague came. If the stupid people just had cats no plague. Monty Python took this mindset to comedic extreme with the "bring out your dead" scene in "Quest for the Holy Grail"; the medieval peasants are literally depicted as belly-crawling through the muddy streets. It's when speaking with average progressives about the past that this skit truly comes into its own, though; the average "modern" really has internalized such defamation about the past. One can see the comedy in their historical exaggerations even if they cannot.
      - earleybird 11y ago
        Apropos to the subject; in the background of that very scene is an old woman flogging a cat against a wall[1]. The depth of thought and detail that the Monty Python lads show in their historical understanding is quite impressive. [1] https://youtu.be/grbSQ6O6kbs?t=52 https://youtu.be/grbSQ6O6kbs?t=52 EDIT: add url
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
jon-wood 11y ago
I sent this article to my wife, who is doing a PhD in medieval history, specifically looking at women who've taken religious vows, and she had this to say: "Cats weren't just popular with nuns, but particularly with anchoresses [effectively female hermits]. Which I suppose makes sense because you'd want the company! The 13th century rule for anchoresses 'Ancrene Wisse' forbids all pets except a cat. So they can't have been considered that demonic "
- jqm 11y ago
  Amazing. Apparently crazy cat ladies have been a feature of western civilization for a lot longer than I realized.
- duaneb 11y ago
  The companion meme came later, I think. The first references to black cats I've seen (you can see a taste of this if you read Name of the Rose) were of superstitions positive and negative) regarding path crossing and sacrificing of black cats. But by the time witch hunts rolled around, they definitely used "familiars" as evidence in some cases. I wonder if the "cat ladies" were a part of this, and if there were "cat men" for monks.
- dang 11y ago
  Wow. Please send more HN articles to your wife! Even better, convince her to comment here.
  - laura-wood 11y ago
    Why hello.
    - PeterWhittaker 11y ago
      One of my favourite types of humour is the unexpected development. This made me LOL. Would that I could upvote more than once.
laura-wood 11y ago
The blog post is a good one, but is unrelated to your point about witch hunts, which really weren't much of a thing until the early modern period. Also, accounts written at any time incur bias - all sources are fallible, and medieval ones arguably no more so than any others.

jon-wood 11y ago

Sadly this is often the way with studying the medieval period, when records were sparse, and most people couldn't write. My guess is they didn't explicitly state it because as a magazine for medievalists their readership is going to implicitly understand that written accounts can't be taken as the opinion of everyone. Having said that, it appears cats weren't universally hated, a quick Google reveals this blog post[1] about cats and their relationship with scribes. It seems that there was a similar feel to many modern cat owners, the well known affection for an animal that will not be told what to do.

dalke 11y ago
"it appears cats weren't universally hated, a quick Google reveals" Or you could copy&paste from the linked-to article: > Not all medieval Europeans hated cats. There are many accounts of cats being kept as pets, including by nuns.
- baldfat 11y ago
  As a former falculty memeber and Theological Seminary student. Academia has a serious issue with quality scholarship. Most people focus on one thing and make bold unsupported grabs. My cool little twist on everyone else (I was into Historical Theology which is the most geeky of Theological disciplines) I liked to show the art of whatever period I was talking about. It would debunk 50% of the crappy research all the time, and this time it didn't fail. Warning slide show for ads but it is a slide show of cats in the Middle Ages. http://www.medievalists.net/2015/08/08/cat-pics-from-the-middle-ages/ http://www.medievalists.net/2015/08/08/cat-pics-from-the-mid... Cats as pets, guardians against mice, etc. This myth started about cats because people thought Middle Age people were stupid and that they got the wrong idea about cats and that killed them because then the plague came. If the stupid people just had cats no plague.
  - kingmanaz 11y ago
    >This myth started about cats because people thought Middle Age people were stupid and that they got the wrong idea about cats and that killed them because then the plague came. If the stupid people just had cats no plague. Monty Python took this mindset to comedic extreme with the "bring out your dead" scene in "Quest for the Holy Grail"; the medieval peasants are literally depicted as belly-crawling through the muddy streets. It's when speaking with average progressives about the past that this skit truly comes into its own, though; the average "modern" really has internalized such defamation about the past. One can see the comedy in their historical exaggerations even if they cannot.
    - earleybird 11y ago
      Apropos to the subject; in the background of that very scene is an old woman flogging a cat against a wall[1]. The depth of thought and detail that the Monty Python lads show in their historical understanding is quite impressive. [1] https://youtu.be/grbSQ6O6kbs?t=52 https://youtu.be/grbSQ6O6kbs?t=52 EDIT: add url

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

jon-wood 11y ago

I sent this article to my wife, who is doing a PhD in medieval history, specifically looking at women who've taken religious vows, and she had this to say: "Cats weren't just popular with nuns, but particularly with anchoresses [effectively female hermits]. Which I suppose makes sense because you'd want the company! The 13th century rule for anchoresses 'Ancrene Wisse' forbids all pets except a cat. So they can't have been considered that demonic "

jqm 11y ago
Amazing. Apparently crazy cat ladies have been a feature of western civilization for a lot longer than I realized.
duaneb 11y ago
The companion meme came later, I think. The first references to black cats I've seen (you can see a taste of this if you read Name of the Rose) were of superstitions positive and negative) regarding path crossing and sacrificing of black cats. But by the time witch hunts rolled around, they definitely used "familiars" as evidence in some cases. I wonder if the "cat ladies" were a part of this, and if there were "cat men" for monks.
dang 11y ago
Wow. Please send more HN articles to your wife! Even better, convince her to comment here.
- laura-wood 11y ago
  Why hello.
  - PeterWhittaker 11y ago
    One of my favourite types of humour is the unexpected development. This made me LOL. Would that I could upvote more than once.

laura-wood 11y ago

The blog post is a good one, but is unrelated to your point about witch hunts, which really weren't much of a thing until the early modern period. Also, accounts written at any time incur bias - all sources are fallible, and medieval ones arguably no more so than any others.