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You seem confident of the licensing terms. But, you really have no facts to back up your claims so it's entirely speculation and most likely very incorrect. To

You seem confident of the licensing terms. But, you really have no facts to back up your claims so it's entirely speculation and most likely very incorrect. To suggest Sun wanted a measly 25 million for a perpetual license was silly. Sun wanted a piece of the pie and there was no way Google was ever going to let that happen. Oracle failed to assert their VM patents and so their copyright claim on the SSO of 37 Java API's was their last desperate hope of clawing any compensation. Android is the reason Java is the #1 programming language. I hope Google transitions to another language and leaves Java in the dust. Google is responsible for making Java relevant in the consumer space and Google is also going to be responsible for making it irrelevant thanks to Oracle.

pron 11y ago
> Sun wanted a piece of the pie and there was no way Google was ever going to let that happen Or Google could have complied with the open-source license, as they did with Linux. But there was no way Google was ever going to let that happen. > Android is the reason Java is the #1 programming language Android hardly accounts for a few percentage points.
- bitmapbrother 11y ago
  >Or Google could have complied with the open-source license, as they did with Linux. But there was no way Google was ever going to let that happen. How exactly did Google not comply? Are you suggesting that if Google released the Android bits under the GPL license and not the Apache they would be been compliant and Oracle would have not sued? I highly doubt that. >Android hardly accounts for a few percentage points. Java would be in a constant annual decline had it not been for Google and Android. Just as Objective-C has sunk dramatically in the TIOBE index we'll see the same result when Google switches to Go, Dart or perhaps even Python.
  - pron 11y ago
    > Are you suggesting that if Google released the Android bits under the GPL license and not the Apache they would be been compliant Of course! OpenJDK is licensed to the entire world under the GPL, and anyone is explicitly permitted to do whatever the hell they please with it. OpenJDK is probably the world's second-largest open-source project (after the Linux kernel), and possibly the world's most active. OTOH, with the rare exceptions of Android (that has significant parts forked from Apache Harmony) and Go, Google has made scant contributions to open-source in general. Netflix, Yahoo, LinkedIn, Twitter and Facebook are all much bigger open-source contributors than Google. True, Oracle is not a big fan of the ton of open-sourceness it inherited from Sun, and has even made the terrible decision to stop contributing to OpenSolaris, but painting Google as a champion of the developer community and a defender of OSS is ridiculous. I have no love for Oracle, and even less love for Google, but in this story Oracle weren't the bad guys. > Java would be in a constant annual decline had it not been for Google and Android. That is completely unfounded. Even within Google (one of the world's biggest Java shops), Android is not one of the biggest Java codebases. Objective-C is a client-side language. Java is first and foremost used on the server. Client-side Java (including Android, which isn't really Java) is a very small part of the Java ecosystem.
coldtea 11y ago
>Android is the reason Java is the #1 programming language. Hardly. Java has been #1 nearly a whole decade before Android even appeared.
- bitmapbrother 11y ago
  No it hasn't. According to TIOBE it was down to 13.5% in Oct 2014.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    Which is totally irrelevant -- not to mention re-inforcing my argument that Android is not what made Java #1 language. Java has been #1 from at least 2002 (and even before, long before Android) until now according to TIOBE -- the fact that it had a dip to #2 in 2014 doesn't change anything substancial to what I said, which was: "Java has been #1 nearly a whole decade before Android even appeared." http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index....
    - bitmapbrother 11y ago
      You stated Java was #1 according to TIOBE a decade before Android was released. Android was released in 2008. Looking at the data it's clear your statement is incorrect. Furthermore, according to the TIOBE long term index, Java was #2 in 2005 and #3 in 2000.
      - coldtea 11y ago
        >You stated Java was #1 according to TIOBE a decade before Android was released. No, I wrote (quote) "nearly a whole decade before Android was released". Besides, you couldn't have missed the point more. First the whole thing in discussion is whether Java became #1 due to Android or not (and it hasn't: it was #1 way before Android, and kept it until now for over a decade). Second, TIOBE is indicative, not absolute. A language that's #1 with 25% in early 2014 doesn't suddenly drop 5-10 points to go below another for a few months -- that's just a momentary trend in searches or repos and other things that TIOBE looks at, not some indication that millions abandonded Java and adopted C for six months and then came back.

pron 11y ago

> Sun wanted a piece of the pie and there was no way Google was ever going to let that happen Or Google could have complied with the open-source license, as they did with Linux. But there was no way Google was ever going to let that happen. > Android is the reason Java is the #1 programming language Android hardly accounts for a few percentage points.

bitmapbrother 11y ago
>Or Google could have complied with the open-source license, as they did with Linux. But there was no way Google was ever going to let that happen. How exactly did Google not comply? Are you suggesting that if Google released the Android bits under the GPL license and not the Apache they would be been compliant and Oracle would have not sued? I highly doubt that. >Android hardly accounts for a few percentage points. Java would be in a constant annual decline had it not been for Google and Android. Just as Objective-C has sunk dramatically in the TIOBE index we'll see the same result when Google switches to Go, Dart or perhaps even Python.
- pron 11y ago
  > Are you suggesting that if Google released the Android bits under the GPL license and not the Apache they would be been compliant Of course! OpenJDK is licensed to the entire world under the GPL, and anyone is explicitly permitted to do whatever the hell they please with it. OpenJDK is probably the world's second-largest open-source project (after the Linux kernel), and possibly the world's most active. OTOH, with the rare exceptions of Android (that has significant parts forked from Apache Harmony) and Go, Google has made scant contributions to open-source in general. Netflix, Yahoo, LinkedIn, Twitter and Facebook are all much bigger open-source contributors than Google. True, Oracle is not a big fan of the ton of open-sourceness it inherited from Sun, and has even made the terrible decision to stop contributing to OpenSolaris, but painting Google as a champion of the developer community and a defender of OSS is ridiculous. I have no love for Oracle, and even less love for Google, but in this story Oracle weren't the bad guys. > Java would be in a constant annual decline had it not been for Google and Android. That is completely unfounded. Even within Google (one of the world's biggest Java shops), Android is not one of the biggest Java codebases. Objective-C is a client-side language. Java is first and foremost used on the server. Client-side Java (including Android, which isn't really Java) is a very small part of the Java ecosystem.

coldtea 11y ago

>Android is the reason Java is the #1 programming language. Hardly. Java has been #1 nearly a whole decade before Android even appeared.

bitmapbrother 11y ago
No it hasn't. According to TIOBE it was down to 13.5% in Oct 2014.
- coldtea 11y ago
  Which is totally irrelevant -- not to mention re-inforcing my argument that Android is not what made Java #1 language. Java has been #1 from at least 2002 (and even before, long before Android) until now according to TIOBE -- the fact that it had a dip to #2 in 2014 doesn't change anything substancial to what I said, which was: "Java has been #1 nearly a whole decade before Android even appeared." http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index....
  - bitmapbrother 11y ago
    You stated Java was #1 according to TIOBE a decade before Android was released. Android was released in 2008. Looking at the data it's clear your statement is incorrect. Furthermore, according to the TIOBE long term index, Java was #2 in 2005 and #3 in 2000.
    - coldtea 11y ago
      >You stated Java was #1 according to TIOBE a decade before Android was released. No, I wrote (quote) "nearly a whole decade before Android was released". Besides, you couldn't have missed the point more. First the whole thing in discussion is whether Java became #1 due to Android or not (and it hasn't: it was #1 way before Android, and kept it until now for over a decade). Second, TIOBE is indicative, not absolute. A language that's #1 with 25% in early 2014 doesn't suddenly drop 5-10 points to go below another for a few months -- that's just a momentary trend in searches or repos and other things that TIOBE looks at, not some indication that millions abandonded Java and adopted C for six months and then came back.