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"that against a cosmic scale of time and space, every human being is minute" There is a paved road to clinical depression which starts with thoughts like these

"that against a cosmic scale of time and space, every human being is minute" There is a paved road to clinical depression which starts with thoughts like these. I know it because I've taken it. Life stops having meaning if you take this too seriously - I mean, why do anything or achieve anything if we're just specs in time and space destined to die and be forgotten ? Besides, this doesn't necessarily imply humility. If it doesn't matter then it doesn't matter - if you've got a small/quiet ego or you're a larger-than-universe egomaniac... because... we're just a minute...

blowski 11y ago
To the universe you are nothing. To history you are probably nothing. But to a small number of people you can be everything.
- codeshaman 11y ago
  'Cause for the world you are someone, but for someone you're the world' ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOlG-H_Pjbg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOlG-H_Pjbg
danenania 11y ago
There's another type of depression that comes from always grasping for (money|acceptance|fame|success|whatever) and never fully attaining it. For people stuck on this treadmill, the long perspective can be a good reminder that none of it is really worth getting too bent out of shape about. On a cosmic timescale, all these things we worry about will be gone and forgotten in the blink of an eye. The best antidote to avoid swinging the other way, into nihilism, is to simply live in the present as much as possible and enjoy what's there. Things don't need to be permanent and important to be enjoyable. Think about games. We know the outcome doesn't matter in any larger frame of reference, but we still like playing and get wrapped up in them for their own sake. Life is just another game--not ultimately significant, but fun to get wrapped up in if you don't take the outcome overly seriously.
- hosh 11y ago
  Nihilism is still a form of depression. Things are not permanent, yes. All things arise and pass, including nihilism and depression. The folks I know who are truly in equanimity and live in the present, are present in the moment, are among the most vibrant and real people I know. When they laugh, they laugh, when they grieve, they grieve. They are fearless in their love, even knowing that all things will pass.
  - capisce 11y ago
    It might just be that they are positively biased: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism
welanes 11y ago
We are minute, yet here we are - the Universe observing itself. "Why do anything?". Presented with these options, which would you prefer: A. Live a normal life and be promised that after your death people will fabricate a story of your adventure, heroism and glory? B. Live a life of adventure, heroism and glory with the promise that when you die nobody will remember you? The point being, why derive meaning from the notion of being remembered by people you will never know, when the meaning may be found in the experiences our actions produce now? The heights of human happiness (yeah, misery too) are ours for the taking. Derive meaning from trying to squeeze as much of the former from life as we possibly can.
- greggman 11y ago
  I'm not disagreeing with you but just feeling like I could look at (A) as be helpful too lots of people and (B) live a selfish life of hedonism. Was that your intent or do you see a different way of defining (A) and (B)?
bobthechef 11y ago
That sounds like what the article describes as high self-esteem coupled with an uncomfortable threat to that self-esteem (the larger the ego, the more likely it is to run into death anxiety).
SmallBets 11y ago
Balancing this line defines the human experience in my opinion. Objectively it is true, we are minute. But humanity is in the subjective making of meaning. That opportunity to make your own meaning is an incredible one if you choose to accept it. If you don't, it's not, and depression/nihilism results. And the funny thing is, those who hone that strongest sense of subjective meaning and well being in how they see the world, are the ones who make an outsized butterfly-effect impact on the world, coming closest to overcoming that objective meaninglessnes. So basically, imo the answer to why do anything? Is because you believe something is worth doing subjectively/on faith/on instinct. Only then does it have a chance to build toward a more objective answer to why do it, in its impact on people & history.
- hosh 11y ago
  "That opportunity to make your own meaning is an incredible one if you choose to accept it. If you don't, it's not, and depression/nihilism results." This is not true. There are meditative practices where you end up passing through depression and nihilism, but those are still forms of the ego trying make itself known, clinging to it's existence. This is similar to the Five Stages of Grief, where you are not yet at acceptance and equanimity.
hosh 11y ago
That's the feeling of "insignificance", the lack of agency, and seeing the pointlessness. None of those are humility. When I contemplate the vast cosmic scale and look up in the stores, my jaws drop open like a kid, and I go "whoa..." That's the sense of awe and profoundness. It doesn't have to be about humility or about insignificance.
Profan 11y ago
You can conclude that in the greater scale of things, you may not have much impact and still enjoy life. Because being aware that your actions in the greater scale of things mean less, make it easier for you to appreciate the moment and what you can do for those who will be around when you are.
specialist 11y ago
When nothing we do matters, all that matters is what we do.
chadzawistowski 11y ago
I think there's only danger in taking the cosmic scale of the universe seriously if you also take your selfhood seriously. “My life amounts to no more than one drop in a limitless ocean. Yet what is any ocean, but a multitude of drops?” ― David Mitchell, Cloud Atlas Minuteness is a problem when you feel like an outsider 'brought into' the world to 'confront' it, but is less problematic if you feel like part of a greater whole.

blowski 11y ago

To the universe you are nothing. To history you are probably nothing. But to a small number of people you can be everything.

codeshaman 11y ago
'Cause for the world you are someone, but for someone you're the world' ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOlG-H_Pjbg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOlG-H_Pjbg

danenania 11y ago

There's another type of depression that comes from always grasping for (money|acceptance|fame|success|whatever) and never fully attaining it. For people stuck on this treadmill, the long perspective can be a good reminder that none of it is really worth getting too bent out of shape about. On a cosmic timescale, all these things we worry about will be gone and forgotten in the blink of an eye. The best antidote to avoid swinging the other way, into nihilism, is to simply live in the present as much as possible and enjoy what's there. Things don't need to be permanent and important to be enjoyable. Think about games. We know the outcome doesn't matter in any larger frame of reference, but we still like playing and get wrapped up in them for their own sake. Life is just another game--not ultimately significant, but fun to get wrapped up in if you don't take the outcome overly seriously.

hosh 11y ago
Nihilism is still a form of depression. Things are not permanent, yes. All things arise and pass, including nihilism and depression. The folks I know who are truly in equanimity and live in the present, are present in the moment, are among the most vibrant and real people I know. When they laugh, they laugh, when they grieve, they grieve. They are fearless in their love, even knowing that all things will pass.
- capisce 11y ago
  It might just be that they are positively biased: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism

welanes 11y ago

We are minute, yet here we are - the Universe observing itself. "Why do anything?". Presented with these options, which would you prefer: A. Live a normal life and be promised that after your death people will fabricate a story of your adventure, heroism and glory? B. Live a life of adventure, heroism and glory with the promise that when you die nobody will remember you? The point being, why derive meaning from the notion of being remembered by people you will never know, when the meaning may be found in the experiences our actions produce now? The heights of human happiness (yeah, misery too) are ours for the taking. Derive meaning from trying to squeeze as much of the former from life as we possibly can.

greggman 11y ago
I'm not disagreeing with you but just feeling like I could look at (A) as be helpful too lots of people and (B) live a selfish life of hedonism. Was that your intent or do you see a different way of defining (A) and (B)?

bobthechef 11y ago

That sounds like what the article describes as high self-esteem coupled with an uncomfortable threat to that self-esteem (the larger the ego, the more likely it is to run into death anxiety).

SmallBets 11y ago

Balancing this line defines the human experience in my opinion. Objectively it is true, we are minute. But humanity is in the subjective making of meaning. That opportunity to make your own meaning is an incredible one if you choose to accept it. If you don't, it's not, and depression/nihilism results. And the funny thing is, those who hone that strongest sense of subjective meaning and well being in how they see the world, are the ones who make an outsized butterfly-effect impact on the world, coming closest to overcoming that objective meaninglessnes. So basically, imo the answer to why do anything? Is because you believe something is worth doing subjectively/on faith/on instinct. Only then does it have a chance to build toward a more objective answer to why do it, in its impact on people & history.

hosh 11y ago
"That opportunity to make your own meaning is an incredible one if you choose to accept it. If you don't, it's not, and depression/nihilism results." This is not true. There are meditative practices where you end up passing through depression and nihilism, but those are still forms of the ego trying make itself known, clinging to it's existence. This is similar to the Five Stages of Grief, where you are not yet at acceptance and equanimity.

hosh 11y ago

That's the feeling of "insignificance", the lack of agency, and seeing the pointlessness. None of those are humility. When I contemplate the vast cosmic scale and look up in the stores, my jaws drop open like a kid, and I go "whoa..." That's the sense of awe and profoundness. It doesn't have to be about humility or about insignificance.

Profan 11y ago

You can conclude that in the greater scale of things, you may not have much impact and still enjoy life. Because being aware that your actions in the greater scale of things mean less, make it easier for you to appreciate the moment and what you can do for those who will be around when you are.

specialist 11y ago

When nothing we do matters, all that matters is what we do.

chadzawistowski 11y ago

I think there's only danger in taking the cosmic scale of the universe seriously if you also take your selfhood seriously. “My life amounts to no more than one drop in a limitless ocean. Yet what is any ocean, but a multitude of drops?” ― David Mitchell, Cloud Atlas Minuteness is a problem when you feel like an outsider 'brought into' the world to 'confront' it, but is less problematic if you feel like part of a greater whole.