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And the Oracle legal shenanigans seems like a good argument for Clojure on the CLR. I don't know how mature the CLR ecosystem is on Linux, but the licensing at

And the Oracle legal shenanigans seems like a good argument for Clojure on the CLR. I don't know how mature the CLR ecosystem is on Linux, but the licensing at least seems ok.

pjmlp 11y ago
Android Java is J++ relaunched.
pron 11y ago
> And the Oracle legal shenanigans You mean the Google legal shenanigans that tried to find loopholes around two Java licenses (one of them completely open-source, and the other would have cost them $25M) that would hopefully hold up in a court case (which they were sure would follow, because they went straight after Sun's business), failed, and in the process forked the ecosystem? Oracle did exactly what Google dared them to do (after a reprieve while Sun was dying). Only, to get what they wanted -- payment for the use of Java not under its open-source license -- they used whatever legal argument they could come up with, in the hope that one would stick. One did (well, at least partially), and now Oracle is at fault? This entire court case -- except the decision -- was orchestrated by Google. They could have avoided the whole thing by either abiding by the open-source license (which, BTW, is exactly the same as Linux's) or by paying Sun $25M. Oracle, OTOH, had no choice because Google went after them with their own weapon. Oracle didn't just go after someone who'd forked Java. They went after someone who'd forked Java with the intent to harm on of their main income sources from Java (at least at the time), while forking the ecosystem and breaking compatibility -- the ecosystem's prime directive -- and all that while Java was available under an open-source license, which Google rejected. They don't care about the principles of copyright. They just happened to use that in their arsenal of legal tools to go after a company that they believed had harmed them. Then, Google's PR tried to terrify the world with the possible repercussions of the one argument that did stick by blowing it out of proportion and neglecting to mention that it hardly applies to any software these days. Neither of these companies is a saint in this story. They are just two corporations playing their parts. But Google was the one who could have stopped all this, and blaming the whole thing on Oracle is just ridiculous.
- icebraining 11y ago
  Frankly, one doesn't need to know anything about the case to find the idea that Google would balk at the request for a single payment of $25M to ensure that Android was free from claims of infringement is clearly nonsense. They spend more than that per year in food for their employees. Of course, that's not true, and you know it's not true, since you replied earlier this year to someone who explained that the alleged offer was $20M + 10% of Android's revenue (capped at $25M) for a three year license - and this was in 2006, years before Android had even launched. FSM knows what Oracle would have demanded after Android was a proven success and Google had caved earlier. Of course, one may still think Google should have paid whatever Sun/Oracle asked for, but let's not spread misinformation.
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    " Just because Sun didn't have patent suits in our genetic code doesn't mean we didn't feel wronged. While I have differences with Oracle, in this case they are in the right. Google totally slimed Sun. We were all really disturbed, even Jonathan: he just decided to put on a happy face and tried to turn lemons into lemonade, which annoyed a lot of folks at Sun. " -- James Gosling, http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/my_attitude_on_oracle_v http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/my_attitude_on_oracle...
    - yongjik 11y ago
      Err, if he really felt that way, why did he join Google?
      - pjmlp 11y ago
        No idea, but he didn't stay there long. If you check his blog he has another posts about the whole issue.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - pron 11y ago
agumonkey 11y ago
clojurescript is starting to look like a potential successor isn't it ?

And the Oracle legal shenanigans seems like a good argument for Clojure on the CLR. I don't know how mature the CLR ecosystem is on Linux, but the licensing at least seems ok.

pjmlp 11y ago

Android Java is J++ relaunched.

pron 11y ago

> And the Oracle legal shenanigans You mean the Google legal shenanigans that tried to find loopholes around two Java licenses (one of them completely open-source, and the other would have cost them $25M) that would hopefully hold up in a court case (which they were sure would follow, because they went straight after Sun's business), failed, and in the process forked the ecosystem? Oracle did exactly what Google dared them to do (after a reprieve while Sun was dying). Only, to get what they wanted -- payment for the use of Java not under its open-source license -- they used whatever legal argument they could come up with, in the hope that one would stick. One did (well, at least partially), and now Oracle is at fault? This entire court case -- except the decision -- was orchestrated by Google. They could have avoided the whole thing by either abiding by the open-source license (which, BTW, is exactly the same as Linux's) or by paying Sun $25M. Oracle, OTOH, had no choice because Google went after them with their own weapon. Oracle didn't just go after someone who'd forked Java. They went after someone who'd forked Java with the intent to harm on of their main income sources from Java (at least at the time), while forking the ecosystem and breaking compatibility -- the ecosystem's prime directive -- and all that while Java was available under an open-source license, which Google rejected. They don't care about the principles of copyright. They just happened to use that in their arsenal of legal tools to go after a company that they believed had harmed them. Then, Google's PR tried to terrify the world with the possible repercussions of the one argument that did stick by blowing it out of proportion and neglecting to mention that it hardly applies to any software these days. Neither of these companies is a saint in this story. They are just two corporations playing their parts. But Google was the one who could have stopped all this, and blaming the whole thing on Oracle is just ridiculous.

icebraining 11y ago
Frankly, one doesn't need to know anything about the case to find the idea that Google would balk at the request for a single payment of $25M to ensure that Android was free from claims of infringement is clearly nonsense. They spend more than that per year in food for their employees. Of course, that's not true, and you know it's not true, since you replied earlier this year to someone who explained that the alleged offer was $20M + 10% of Android's revenue (capped at $25M) for a three year license - and this was in 2006, years before Android had even launched. FSM knows what Oracle would have demanded after Android was a proven success and Google had caved earlier. Of course, one may still think Google should have paid whatever Sun/Oracle asked for, but let's not spread misinformation.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  " Just because Sun didn't have patent suits in our genetic code doesn't mean we didn't feel wronged. While I have differences with Oracle, in this case they are in the right. Google totally slimed Sun. We were all really disturbed, even Jonathan: he just decided to put on a happy face and tried to turn lemons into lemonade, which annoyed a lot of folks at Sun. " -- James Gosling, http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/my_attitude_on_oracle_v http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/my_attitude_on_oracle...
  - yongjik 11y ago
    Err, if he really felt that way, why did he join Google?
    - pjmlp 11y ago
      No idea, but he didn't stay there long. If you check his blog he has another posts about the whole issue.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- pron 11y ago

agumonkey 11y ago

clojurescript is starting to look like a potential successor isn't it ?