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Why are people always talking about AI like it implies intrinsic motivation or even self awareness (in the context of motivation). Motivation/tasks can be provi

Why are people always talking about AI like it implies intrinsic motivation or even self awareness (in the context of motivation). Motivation/tasks can be provided by the human - AI can be a general purpose problem solving machine. It doesn't have to "care" - it's just a machine with a task to perform - the thing that makes it intelligent is ability to solve tasks it wasn't programmed to do. Once you have an AI that can do that - society falls apart. Foundation of modern society is built on the fact that cooperation trumps every other method of work - general purpose AI changes that equation to the point where other people are not only not necessary but also actively dangerous (threatening to take control).

jfoutz 11y ago
> the thing that makes it intelligent is ability to solve tasks it wasn't programmed to do. That includes task selection. Maybe the AI gets bored with stock prediction. Maybe the AI is happy competing with all the humans, maybe it'd rather go explore space. Maybe it decides this whole reality sucks and suicides. We really have no idea what'll happen. Best guess is, tools get better and better until they decide to do something else. Like a trusted employee going and starting a competing company, or moving to the beach and surfing. Maybe it's disastrous, maybe it's utopia. Maybe it's like _her_ and they leave. Best anyone can do is make vague guesses. I know, i'm anthropomorphizing. It's for convenience, the solution space for AI is way bigger than our simple wants and needs.
- pygy_ 11y ago
  The solution space is huge, but the survival of the fittest principle still holds. Entities that are able and willing to control the resources will outlive those that are not.
- moonchrome 11y ago
  >the solution space for AI is way bigger than our simple wants and needs I don't understand this - the solution space is specified by the controller of AI. It's not about being "happy", "cooperating", etc. There is no AI as an entity - it's just a tool that finds solutions to the given problems.
  - jfoutz 11y ago
    can the ai modify its objective function?
- tgflynn 11y ago
  An AI (at least assuming it results from foreseeable extrapolations of current research) isn't going to have intrinsic motivations like "boredom" or "happiness" so anthropomorphic thinking a very useful way to reason about its behavior. Its only "motivation" will be to maximize the objective function it has been given by those who (at least nominally) control it. If the AI is very intelligent that still allows for a great deal of unanticipated behavior though.
amirouche 11y ago
> Foundation of modern society is built on the fact that cooperation trumps every other method of work You don't seem to be confident of this because: > general purpose AI changes that equation to the point where other people are not only not necessary but also actively dangerous (threatening to take control). If you think coop is better than anything else, why an AI would think otherwise? edit: Are you saying that an AI that can solve problems better than any human can, can be way for some humans to threaten other humans?
- moonchrome 11y ago
  >If you think coop is better than anything else, why an AI would think otherwise? Again anthropomorphization - AI (in this scenario) doesn't "think" (as in have opinion) anything - you specify a problem - machine provides the solution. "I want X and Y" - it finds solution to solve X and Y. Even saying "it" feels wrong because it implies a single entity. No need for motivation - no self awareness - just a tool - sort of like a compiler (that can interface with real world with robots and whatnot - a weak analogy). >edit: Are you saying that an AI that can solve problems better than any human can, can be way for some humans to threaten other humans? Not even some humans - basically if you're the individual in control of such AI you will have a strong incentive to prevent others from gaining access - if you don't you give someone else the opportunity to take exclusive control. And besides - if you're capable of using such AI device you don't really need other people which is my point in the first place - society evolved not because of magic and harmony but because it's the most stable structure with the premise that cooperation (I shouldn't even say cooperation because there can be coercive societies that are still more efficient that individual) allows us to reproduce more efficiently. General purpose AI basically outperforms and replaces other people.

jfoutz 11y ago

> the thing that makes it intelligent is ability to solve tasks it wasn't programmed to do. That includes task selection. Maybe the AI gets bored with stock prediction. Maybe the AI is happy competing with all the humans, maybe it'd rather go explore space. Maybe it decides this whole reality sucks and suicides. We really have no idea what'll happen. Best guess is, tools get better and better until they decide to do something else. Like a trusted employee going and starting a competing company, or moving to the beach and surfing. Maybe it's disastrous, maybe it's utopia. Maybe it's like _her_ and they leave. Best anyone can do is make vague guesses. I know, i'm anthropomorphizing. It's for convenience, the solution space for AI is way bigger than our simple wants and needs.

pygy_ 11y ago
The solution space is huge, but the survival of the fittest principle still holds. Entities that are able and willing to control the resources will outlive those that are not.
moonchrome 11y ago
>the solution space for AI is way bigger than our simple wants and needs I don't understand this - the solution space is specified by the controller of AI. It's not about being "happy", "cooperating", etc. There is no AI as an entity - it's just a tool that finds solutions to the given problems.
- jfoutz 11y ago
  can the ai modify its objective function?
tgflynn 11y ago
An AI (at least assuming it results from foreseeable extrapolations of current research) isn't going to have intrinsic motivations like "boredom" or "happiness" so anthropomorphic thinking a very useful way to reason about its behavior. Its only "motivation" will be to maximize the objective function it has been given by those who (at least nominally) control it. If the AI is very intelligent that still allows for a great deal of unanticipated behavior though.

amirouche 11y ago

> Foundation of modern society is built on the fact that cooperation trumps every other method of work You don't seem to be confident of this because: > general purpose AI changes that equation to the point where other people are not only not necessary but also actively dangerous (threatening to take control). If you think coop is better than anything else, why an AI would think otherwise? edit: Are you saying that an AI that can solve problems better than any human can, can be way for some humans to threaten other humans?

moonchrome 11y ago
>If you think coop is better than anything else, why an AI would think otherwise? Again anthropomorphization - AI (in this scenario) doesn't "think" (as in have opinion) anything - you specify a problem - machine provides the solution. "I want X and Y" - it finds solution to solve X and Y. Even saying "it" feels wrong because it implies a single entity. No need for motivation - no self awareness - just a tool - sort of like a compiler (that can interface with real world with robots and whatnot - a weak analogy). >edit: Are you saying that an AI that can solve problems better than any human can, can be way for some humans to threaten other humans? Not even some humans - basically if you're the individual in control of such AI you will have a strong incentive to prevent others from gaining access - if you don't you give someone else the opportunity to take exclusive control. And besides - if you're capable of using such AI device you don't really need other people which is my point in the first place - society evolved not because of magic and harmony but because it's the most stable structure with the premise that cooperation (I shouldn't even say cooperation because there can be coercive societies that are still more efficient that individual) allows us to reproduce more efficiently. General purpose AI basically outperforms and replaces other people.