9 ms·

Best Buy Optimization Is A Big Stupid Annoying Waste Of Money

92 points by madh 17y ago

fnid 17y ago
is there a reasonable way to build ones own laptop these days?
- jeduan 17y ago
  Why would you want to?
  - fnid 17y ago
    The same reason I built my own workstation. The same reason I build servers. Because you can build better equipment and gain an intimate understanding of the system so if something goes wrong, you're more apt to fix it without a $500 fee from the manufacturer.
    - jeduan 17y ago
      Yeah, but I find notebooks to be in the same category as mobile phones where you don't get anything but bulkiness in return for your time. You might get a better use for your time building your own servers and workstations.
      - d0mine 17y ago
        I've down-voted it by accidence. Please, up-vote to fix my mistake.
    - thaumaturgy 17y ago
      > The same reason I build servers. I can't figure out how to build servers cheaper than their equivalent abmx.com counterparts -- ignoring cases where I buy an 8-bay unit and then purchase the drives separately. In fact, to go further out on a limb: it's been a while since I've seen any computer system in the consumer market for sale and thought to myself, "I could build one like that for less". Which sucks, because it would be great if I could do that, stick my own label on them, and sell 'em.
- aaronz3 17y ago
  You can do it, its just not economical. Last time I looked the cases were pretty bulky as well, but it's been a while.
- _pi 17y ago
  It's fairly easy to find barebones bodies with mobo, cpu, etc. However finding graphics chips, sound chips, etc. is quite a pain.
  - fnid 17y ago
    Mhm, this was the state of the industry the last time I checked. I suppose it would be easier to take an existing laptop and replace the parts...
- jrockway 17y ago
  No, but it is easy to pop in the OS install disk of your choice and blow away whatever crap came with the default install. (That's all this article is talking about.) Most laptops have fine hardware, it's just that the default Windows installs come with a lot of ads to keep the price low (or more likely, the profit margin higher). Save yourself the trouble and delete the ads before they even get the chance to be executed.
  - thaumaturgy 17y ago
    Dell laptops and desktops are tricky to do this with if you're installing Windows, because -- for some dumb reason -- the Dell hardware is simply crippled without the pack of model-specific drivers installed. On some units, you even lose ethernet, so you're not only stuck with a horrible screen resolution until you fix it, but you also have to load the drivers on via usb. And finally: I don't know of a manufacturer right now that provides you with a real actual Windows disk when you buy your computer. You generally get instead an OEM "reinstall" disk which puts all that wonderful crap back on your system. I really really wish Linux could get a serious hold on the consumer market.
    - jrockway 17y ago
      I really really wish Linux could get a serious hold on the consumer market. So then Linux machines would ship with a ton of crapware too?
      - thaumaturgy 17y ago
        If they did, the problem could be solved by installing your own free Linux distribution. This is not the case with Windows, which was the point.
- blasdel 17y ago
  The problem is with the bundled software, the hardware has nothing to do with it. I'm sure you can wipe it and install Windows (or a better OS) from scratch yourself.
matthavener 17y ago
There's some truth to this "optimization" stuff: most of the low end computers these days come with all kinds of trial software installed (presumably for marketing purposes). Usually I'll spend 20 minutes removing it all after the initial setup. Its probably worth $20 to have it removed if you don't know how to remove it yourself.
- psadauskas 17y ago
  Just run the PC decrapifier: http://www.pcdecrapifier.com/ http://www.pcdecrapifier.com/ and go get a cup of coffee.
KWD 17y ago
Great article, and it really lowers my opinion of Best Buy. I couldn't help but think of the auto rustproofing sales pitch when buying a new car. Another benefit to the article, I think the bottom section listing programs to "optimize" the PC is useful. Only thing I would have added is that cable/dsl internet services these days are likely to provide a free anti-virus from McAfee.
thaumaturgy 17y ago
The Consumerist (and Best Buy) got some stuff right, and some wrong, IMO. Just for background info, I'm the founder of a rapidly growing I.T. consulting company, with both individual, small business, and corporate clients. 1: Laptops and vendor computers certainly could use a thorough going-over when they're unboxed. Of the various vendors, Dell is the least offensive this way, and Acer is one of the worst. 1a: Most vendors are installing various Norton or Symantec products by default, one of the worst anti-virus products available on the market. Norton's actual catch rating is -- literally -- only about 50%, and to get even that high, it has measurable negative impacts on system performance. Notably, it has a pernicious bug in its email scanner that can cause it, spontaneously, to interrupt email service several months down the road. Removing Norton is not as easy as you might think. Inexplicably, the removal process varies from system to system. On one memorable system, it took me two hours to remove it; its own uninstaller crashed every time, refusing to uninstall anything, my copy of the special Norton Removal Tool that can be downloaded was "out of date" (I had downloaded it just three weeks before), and the Norton website was broken and wouldn't allow me to download a new copy. The computer would not reboot into safe mode -- upon starting in safe mode it would reboot back to normal -- and initial attempts at manual removal caused the program to reload its files upon reboot. Despite having a fully updated version of Norton, the computer was riddled with viruses and other garbage. 1b: The "cleanup" is not something I'd recommend for the average user -- and I'm all for teaching users how to use their computer. Unfortunately, it's gotten very hard to tell what to keep from what to throw away. There are no clues other than experience. For example: Dell's moronic "wireless manager" can't be uninstalled without taking the laptop's wireless drivers with it, but there's a way to disable it and let Windows handle the wireless interface, which is more reliable and reduces clutter in the system tray. 2: Where Consumer Reports found a decrease in system speed, it's likely that "Geek Squad" accidentally removed one of the manufacturer's OS updates. 3: If the "cleanup" was done right, and if it was truly optional, $40 is a really fair price for it. Even if we assume that they've got some in-house tools that automate this, the process would likely still take at least 20 minutes and require oversight by a skilled technician. Part of my business is about kicking Geek Squad in the pants every chance I get, but I doubt I could beat that price. 4: There are some system tweaks that can really help things along, that wouldn't show up on a benchmark. One that comes to mind immediately is the particularly stupid network-related services configuration in Vista. The services aren't started automatically, so for dialup users especially this means a very long wait time every time the user opens up Internet Explorer for the first time. 5: Sending users to "msconfig" without directions was a particularly stupid move by Consumerist. The registry at least looks scary enough to ward off most novices, but msconfig makes things really easy to change -- and can result in very strange system behavior. 6: I have not been impressed by CCleaner, nor does PC Decrapifier do a very good job of cleaning up a new system. CCleaner has given me some work in the past in the form of newly unreliable printer behavior, and we tried using PC Decrapifier for a while before concluding that we could actually do the job much faster manually. 7: Spybot Search & Destroy is really not that great as a preventative program. Avira (http://free-av.com/ http://free-av.com/) is a much better piece of software, also free, although the free version has two annoying habits which can be disabled easily. So, should new systems be "optimized" by trained techs working for a company that actually cares about its customers? Hell yes. Unfortunately, neither Best Buy nor Geek Squad got it right.
gvb 17y ago
Oddly, in their table, Consumer's Reports did not list Microsoft's own free antivirus program (they did list Windows Defender anti-spyware). http://www.microsoft.com/Security_Essentials/ http://www.microsoft.com/Security_Essentials/
- assemble 17y ago
  I've been using this since it came out. It's fast, and seems to work very well. It doesn't get in the way and irritate me like AVG, Avast and the other free ones. I've been extremely pleased with it.
mattmaroon 17y ago
Wait, people buy computers at Best Buy still? What year is this?
- og1 17y ago
  I've noticed when they run their specials on laptops the prices can run lower than the online only retailers. Not always the case though.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    Never noticed this. The only time I buy from Best Buy is when I am truly desperate; buying from Amazon with overnight shipping is always cheaper, and there is much better selection.
    - mattmaroon 17y ago
      Lack of sales tax alone is hard to compete with when it comes to electronics.
      - jrockway 17y ago
        That is really the least of my concerns. It's just that Best Buy only tends to sell the very lowest of the low-end stuff, but marks it up to high-end prices. This is true of almost all retail stores, which is why I pretty much only shop online now. The brick-and-mortar stores want to blame sales tax or too-low online prices for their woes, but the reality is that they only sell crap. Most people do not want to buy crap, and don't. As a result, the brick-and-mortar stores that only sell crap are not doing too well compared to the online stores that sell things people actually want to buy. (Notice how Apple's retail stores do fine. This is because they actually sell good products.)
        mattmaroon 17y ago
        That's not true. Best Buy sells plenty of quality merchandise. They've got the same TVs, digital cameras, etc. you'd find highly recommended on Amazon or anywhere else. Their Xbox 360 is no more failure prone than anyone else's. Their computers range the gamut, but so does Dell.com. Most Best Buys now even have an extensive selection of Macs on their own wooden table. They've got every mp3 player worth considering (and many not). I bought my Diamond Rio there back in what must have been 98 or 99. Amazon sells most electronics for about the same price as them. I just looked for my camera, the Cannon Powershot. $149 for the newer model at both places. (Perhaps time for me to upgrade). It's really the sales tax that ruins the business case for shopping there. A copy of Halo is $3 more at Best Buy, and I have to wait in line. When my business bought a Macbook, we saved $100 buying it from Amazon. I could have gotten the same thing off the shelf at Best Buy or an Apple Store, but why pay extra? And the computers I wouldn't buy there due to lack of customizability, which was the original point of the comment. Even my dad just orders them off the net because of that.
troymc 17y ago
Best Buy also sells Apple computers (MacBooks, iMacs, etc.). Does anyone here know if they try to sell "optimized" versions of those as well?
- nollidge 17y ago
  http://consumerist.com/2010/01/shocking-best-buys-mac-optimization-sucks-also.html http://consumerist.com/2010/01/shocking-best-buys-mac-optimi...
jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
Does anyone make a "good PC" anymore? I know many will answer just build it yourself. That's a worthy answer for me, but not for the general public. If my mom wants to buy a PC tomorrow that isn't cluttered with crap (just an OEM install), offers great service, and looks great, what does she buy?
- ams6110 17y ago
  You could always boot straight into a Windows install CD and blow away the vendor's OS install entirely. The problem with doing that, is that often (particularly on laptops) you need a bunch of special purpose drivers to get everything working. Finding and downloading these can be a hassle.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    I doubt this is true anymore. Centrino is well-standardized (and what other laptop platform is there?), and Windows 7 is not as outdated as XP with respect to hardware support. Maybe if you saved fifty cents by getting "Dell Wireless" instead of the Intel chipset, you'll have problems... but I don't know anyone who does that. (Even Dell's site tries to talk you out of it.) I have never used a machine with the default OS install on it, and I have never had any hardware support problems. (And this includes my XP machines at work. Definitely not the default HP Windows install, but the hardware works fine nonetheless.)
- dasil003 17y ago
  I think it's sort of like asking where's the "good TV" without ads. Margins have gotten so thin on PCs—possibly even negative—so that successful manufacturers are forced to cram them full of bloatware to subsidize the purchase price. Given too equal machines, most people will buy the cheaper one every time regardless of what extra crap it has on it. The only way to reverse this trend would be to actually make that a marketing point like No-Ad products, but I'm very skeptical as to whether enough people would care to make it a successful strategy.
  - jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
RyanMcGreal 17y ago
>she was told installing software yourself, "negates the vendor’s warranty." Wait, installing software on a laptop negates the vendor's warranty? I thought the whole point of owning a general purpose computer rather than, say, some embedded device was the flexibility to install (and write) whatever programs you want.
- billybob 17y ago
  Yeah, that comment made me gasp. Best Buy should fire someone who says you can't install your own software.
- stanleydrew 17y ago
  This is why it shocks me that iPhone owners willingly give up this flexibility and even defend Apple for taking it away from them. I know it's not exactly a general purpose computer but it's pretty close.
  - derefr 17y ago
    I never intended to buy another general-purpose computer when I got an iPhone. I'm already responsible for tech support on enough devices--having Apple be root on one of my boxes, instead of me, is somewhat a relief, and I'd actually accept them extending that service to full-form-factor computers for people who ask for such a service. Note that people can still be root on their iPhones if they wish--it's just not a supported configuration, because, unlike with a computer, "supporting" a phone has different connotations and more implied responsibilities for a company. Apple has never actively tried to stop people from jailbreaking their phones, they've just tried to stop people from blaming anything that happens after they do on them. It's like blaming a theme park for injuries you sustain if you blowtorch the restraining bars off yourself and jump from the ride when you're 50 feet in the air.
    - stanleydrew 17y ago
      Apple has never actively tried to stop people from jailbreaking their phones... Doesn't jailbreaking void your warranty? And then there's this quote: Every iPhone update from iTunes disables Jailbreak. Every time Apple comes out with an update for iPhone, they find a way to prevent hackers from cracking the code again. Hackers then scramble to Jailbreak the iPhone again and release the new methods. That means if you like to download Apple’s iPhone updates, you are going to have to figure out each time how to Jailbreak your iPhone yes again. Do you really want to play this cat and mouse game? http://www.appleiphonereview.com/iphone-tutorials/iphone-jailbreak/ http://www.appleiphonereview.com/iphone-tutorials/iphone-jai... And this: http://consumerist.com/2009/07/apple-argues-jailbreaking-iphones-can-lead-to-terrorism.html http://consumerist.com/2009/07/apple-argues-jailbreaking-iph...
zzzmarcus 17y ago
To me, this seems like another reason to buy a Mac. It'll cost you more than the PC (even after optimization) but you don't have to deal with either the mysterious optimizations or uninstalling a bunch of promotional garbage and running endless updates. With the Mac, you open your computer, run Software Update once and you're good to go. In my opinion, that alone justifies the higher price.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
protomyth 17y ago
So, let's say you are a manufacturer. You take money from all these software products and install their wares on your computers. Margins are tight, and this seems the only way to make a profit. Let's also say you are one of the brands sold at Best Buy. At some point, isn't one of the software providers going to want their money back from Best Buy sales since Best Buy is removing their "advertising"?
- zck 17y ago
  Only because the advertisers will complain, and because it's a reason to get a mac [1]. Say Best Buy removed the crapware ads for free, and the advertisers didn't complain. I'm sure Dell couldn't care less, as it's actually a better experience for the user. [1] As far as I know, no one offers "optimization" on a mac, so buying one is less annoying. EDIT: this is wrong: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1032781 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1032781
gcb 17y ago
free advice for bestbuy. 1. go to ubuntu.com 2. order a zillion live install cds. 3. give one to every consumer that buys a pc or mac. 4. be able to claim performance and virus free optimization without consumerist eating them alive.
waterlesscloud 17y ago
I have walked into a Best Buy, ready to make a computer purchase on the spot. And then walked out because I could not buy what I wanted without their "optimizations". I simply will not deal with retailers who do this.
dspeyer 17y ago
Let's be fair. 3dmark is a horrible way to test if cleanup helped. It's mostly gpu limited, and that tends to be unaffected by OEM crap. Rendering a complex webpage, launching an office suite, or watching high-def flash video would be more useful tests. I am not volunteering to do these tests.

92 points by madh 17y ago

fnid 17y ago

is there a reasonable way to build ones own laptop these days?

jeduan 17y ago
Why would you want to?
- fnid 17y ago
  The same reason I built my own workstation. The same reason I build servers. Because you can build better equipment and gain an intimate understanding of the system so if something goes wrong, you're more apt to fix it without a $500 fee from the manufacturer.
  - jeduan 17y ago
    Yeah, but I find notebooks to be in the same category as mobile phones where you don't get anything but bulkiness in return for your time. You might get a better use for your time building your own servers and workstations.
    - d0mine 17y ago
      I've down-voted it by accidence. Please, up-vote to fix my mistake.
  - thaumaturgy 17y ago
    > The same reason I build servers. I can't figure out how to build servers cheaper than their equivalent abmx.com counterparts -- ignoring cases where I buy an 8-bay unit and then purchase the drives separately. In fact, to go further out on a limb: it's been a while since I've seen any computer system in the consumer market for sale and thought to myself, "I could build one like that for less". Which sucks, because it would be great if I could do that, stick my own label on them, and sell 'em.
aaronz3 17y ago
You can do it, its just not economical. Last time I looked the cases were pretty bulky as well, but it's been a while.
_pi 17y ago
It's fairly easy to find barebones bodies with mobo, cpu, etc. However finding graphics chips, sound chips, etc. is quite a pain.
- fnid 17y ago
  Mhm, this was the state of the industry the last time I checked. I suppose it would be easier to take an existing laptop and replace the parts...
jrockway 17y ago
No, but it is easy to pop in the OS install disk of your choice and blow away whatever crap came with the default install. (That's all this article is talking about.) Most laptops have fine hardware, it's just that the default Windows installs come with a lot of ads to keep the price low (or more likely, the profit margin higher). Save yourself the trouble and delete the ads before they even get the chance to be executed.
- thaumaturgy 17y ago
  Dell laptops and desktops are tricky to do this with if you're installing Windows, because -- for some dumb reason -- the Dell hardware is simply crippled without the pack of model-specific drivers installed. On some units, you even lose ethernet, so you're not only stuck with a horrible screen resolution until you fix it, but you also have to load the drivers on via usb. And finally: I don't know of a manufacturer right now that provides you with a real actual Windows disk when you buy your computer. You generally get instead an OEM "reinstall" disk which puts all that wonderful crap back on your system. I really really wish Linux could get a serious hold on the consumer market.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    I really really wish Linux could get a serious hold on the consumer market. So then Linux machines would ship with a ton of crapware too?
    - thaumaturgy 17y ago
      If they did, the problem could be solved by installing your own free Linux distribution. This is not the case with Windows, which was the point.
blasdel 17y ago
The problem is with the bundled software, the hardware has nothing to do with it. I'm sure you can wipe it and install Windows (or a better OS) from scratch yourself.

matthavener 17y ago

There's some truth to this "optimization" stuff: most of the low end computers these days come with all kinds of trial software installed (presumably for marketing purposes). Usually I'll spend 20 minutes removing it all after the initial setup. Its probably worth $20 to have it removed if you don't know how to remove it yourself.

psadauskas 17y ago
Just run the PC decrapifier: http://www.pcdecrapifier.com/ http://www.pcdecrapifier.com/ and go get a cup of coffee.

KWD 17y ago

Great article, and it really lowers my opinion of Best Buy. I couldn't help but think of the auto rustproofing sales pitch when buying a new car. Another benefit to the article, I think the bottom section listing programs to "optimize" the PC is useful. Only thing I would have added is that cable/dsl internet services these days are likely to provide a free anti-virus from McAfee.

thaumaturgy 17y ago

The Consumerist (and Best Buy) got some stuff right, and some wrong, IMO. Just for background info, I'm the founder of a rapidly growing I.T. consulting company, with both individual, small business, and corporate clients. 1: Laptops and vendor computers certainly could use a thorough going-over when they're unboxed. Of the various vendors, Dell is the least offensive this way, and Acer is one of the worst. 1a: Most vendors are installing various Norton or Symantec products by default, one of the worst anti-virus products available on the market. Norton's actual catch rating is -- literally -- only about 50%, and to get even that high, it has measurable negative impacts on system performance. Notably, it has a pernicious bug in its email scanner that can cause it, spontaneously, to interrupt email service several months down the road. Removing Norton is not as easy as you might think. Inexplicably, the removal process varies from system to system. On one memorable system, it took me two hours to remove it; its own uninstaller crashed every time, refusing to uninstall anything, my copy of the special Norton Removal Tool that can be downloaded was "out of date" (I had downloaded it just three weeks before), and the Norton website was broken and wouldn't allow me to download a new copy. The computer would not reboot into safe mode -- upon starting in safe mode it would reboot back to normal -- and initial attempts at manual removal caused the program to reload its files upon reboot. Despite having a fully updated version of Norton, the computer was riddled with viruses and other garbage. 1b: The "cleanup" is not something I'd recommend for the average user -- and I'm all for teaching users how to use their computer. Unfortunately, it's gotten very hard to tell what to keep from what to throw away. There are no clues other than experience. For example: Dell's moronic "wireless manager" can't be uninstalled without taking the laptop's wireless drivers with it, but there's a way to disable it and let Windows handle the wireless interface, which is more reliable and reduces clutter in the system tray. 2: Where Consumer Reports found a decrease in system speed, it's likely that "Geek Squad" accidentally removed one of the manufacturer's OS updates. 3: If the "cleanup" was done right, and if it was truly optional, $40 is a really fair price for it. Even if we assume that they've got some in-house tools that automate this, the process would likely still take at least 20 minutes and require oversight by a skilled technician. Part of my business is about kicking Geek Squad in the pants every chance I get, but I doubt I could beat that price. 4: There are some system tweaks that can really help things along, that wouldn't show up on a benchmark. One that comes to mind immediately is the particularly stupid network-related services configuration in Vista. The services aren't started automatically, so for dialup users especially this means a very long wait time every time the user opens up Internet Explorer for the first time. 5: Sending users to "msconfig" without directions was a particularly stupid move by Consumerist. The registry at least looks scary enough to ward off most novices, but msconfig makes things really easy to change -- and can result in very strange system behavior. 6: I have not been impressed by CCleaner, nor does PC Decrapifier do a very good job of cleaning up a new system. CCleaner has given me some work in the past in the form of newly unreliable printer behavior, and we tried using PC Decrapifier for a while before concluding that we could actually do the job much faster manually. 7: Spybot Search & Destroy is really not that great as a preventative program. Avira (http://free-av.com/ http://free-av.com/) is a much better piece of software, also free, although the free version has two annoying habits which can be disabled easily. So, should new systems be "optimized" by trained techs working for a company that actually cares about its customers? Hell yes. Unfortunately, neither Best Buy nor Geek Squad got it right.

gvb 17y ago

Oddly, in their table, Consumer's Reports did not list Microsoft's own free antivirus program (they did list Windows Defender anti-spyware). http://www.microsoft.com/Security_Essentials/ http://www.microsoft.com/Security_Essentials/

assemble 17y ago
I've been using this since it came out. It's fast, and seems to work very well. It doesn't get in the way and irritate me like AVG, Avast and the other free ones. I've been extremely pleased with it.

mattmaroon 17y ago

Wait, people buy computers at Best Buy still? What year is this?

og1 17y ago
I've noticed when they run their specials on laptops the prices can run lower than the online only retailers. Not always the case though.
- jrockway 17y ago
  Never noticed this. The only time I buy from Best Buy is when I am truly desperate; buying from Amazon with overnight shipping is always cheaper, and there is much better selection.
  - mattmaroon 17y ago
    Lack of sales tax alone is hard to compete with when it comes to electronics.
    - jrockway 17y ago
      That is really the least of my concerns. It's just that Best Buy only tends to sell the very lowest of the low-end stuff, but marks it up to high-end prices. This is true of almost all retail stores, which is why I pretty much only shop online now. The brick-and-mortar stores want to blame sales tax or too-low online prices for their woes, but the reality is that they only sell crap. Most people do not want to buy crap, and don't. As a result, the brick-and-mortar stores that only sell crap are not doing too well compared to the online stores that sell things people actually want to buy. (Notice how Apple's retail stores do fine. This is because they actually sell good products.)
      - mattmaroon 17y ago
        That's not true. Best Buy sells plenty of quality merchandise. They've got the same TVs, digital cameras, etc. you'd find highly recommended on Amazon or anywhere else. Their Xbox 360 is no more failure prone than anyone else's. Their computers range the gamut, but so does Dell.com. Most Best Buys now even have an extensive selection of Macs on their own wooden table. They've got every mp3 player worth considering (and many not). I bought my Diamond Rio there back in what must have been 98 or 99. Amazon sells most electronics for about the same price as them. I just looked for my camera, the Cannon Powershot. $149 for the newer model at both places. (Perhaps time for me to upgrade). It's really the sales tax that ruins the business case for shopping there. A copy of Halo is $3 more at Best Buy, and I have to wait in line. When my business bought a Macbook, we saved $100 buying it from Amazon. I could have gotten the same thing off the shelf at Best Buy or an Apple Store, but why pay extra? And the computers I wouldn't buy there due to lack of customizability, which was the original point of the comment. Even my dad just orders them off the net because of that.

troymc 17y ago

Best Buy also sells Apple computers (MacBooks, iMacs, etc.). Does anyone here know if they try to sell "optimized" versions of those as well?

nollidge 17y ago
http://consumerist.com/2010/01/shocking-best-buys-mac-optimization-sucks-also.html http://consumerist.com/2010/01/shocking-best-buys-mac-optimi...

jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

Does anyone make a "good PC" anymore? I know many will answer just build it yourself. That's a worthy answer for me, but not for the general public. If my mom wants to buy a PC tomorrow that isn't cluttered with crap (just an OEM install), offers great service, and looks great, what does she buy?

ams6110 17y ago
You could always boot straight into a Windows install CD and blow away the vendor's OS install entirely. The problem with doing that, is that often (particularly on laptops) you need a bunch of special purpose drivers to get everything working. Finding and downloading these can be a hassle.
- jrockway 17y ago
  I doubt this is true anymore. Centrino is well-standardized (and what other laptop platform is there?), and Windows 7 is not as outdated as XP with respect to hardware support. Maybe if you saved fifty cents by getting "Dell Wireless" instead of the Intel chipset, you'll have problems... but I don't know anyone who does that. (Even Dell's site tries to talk you out of it.) I have never used a machine with the default OS install on it, and I have never had any hardware support problems. (And this includes my XP machines at work. Definitely not the default HP Windows install, but the hardware works fine nonetheless.)
dasil003 17y ago
I think it's sort of like asking where's the "good TV" without ads. Margins have gotten so thin on PCs—possibly even negative—so that successful manufacturers are forced to cram them full of bloatware to subsidize the purchase price. Given too equal machines, most people will buy the cheaper one every time regardless of what extra crap it has on it. The only way to reverse this trend would be to actually make that a marketing point like No-Ad products, but I'm very skeptical as to whether enough people would care to make it a successful strategy.
- jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

RyanMcGreal 17y ago

>she was told installing software yourself, "negates the vendor’s warranty." Wait, installing software on a laptop negates the vendor's warranty? I thought the whole point of owning a general purpose computer rather than, say, some embedded device was the flexibility to install (and write) whatever programs you want.

billybob 17y ago
Yeah, that comment made me gasp. Best Buy should fire someone who says you can't install your own software.
stanleydrew 17y ago
This is why it shocks me that iPhone owners willingly give up this flexibility and even defend Apple for taking it away from them. I know it's not exactly a general purpose computer but it's pretty close.
- derefr 17y ago
  I never intended to buy another general-purpose computer when I got an iPhone. I'm already responsible for tech support on enough devices--having Apple be root on one of my boxes, instead of me, is somewhat a relief, and I'd actually accept them extending that service to full-form-factor computers for people who ask for such a service. Note that people can still be root on their iPhones if they wish--it's just not a supported configuration, because, unlike with a computer, "supporting" a phone has different connotations and more implied responsibilities for a company. Apple has never actively tried to stop people from jailbreaking their phones, they've just tried to stop people from blaming anything that happens after they do on them. It's like blaming a theme park for injuries you sustain if you blowtorch the restraining bars off yourself and jump from the ride when you're 50 feet in the air.
  - stanleydrew 17y ago
    Apple has never actively tried to stop people from jailbreaking their phones... Doesn't jailbreaking void your warranty? And then there's this quote: Every iPhone update from iTunes disables Jailbreak. Every time Apple comes out with an update for iPhone, they find a way to prevent hackers from cracking the code again. Hackers then scramble to Jailbreak the iPhone again and release the new methods. That means if you like to download Apple’s iPhone updates, you are going to have to figure out each time how to Jailbreak your iPhone yes again. Do you really want to play this cat and mouse game? http://www.appleiphonereview.com/iphone-tutorials/iphone-jailbreak/ http://www.appleiphonereview.com/iphone-tutorials/iphone-jai... And this: http://consumerist.com/2009/07/apple-argues-jailbreaking-iphones-can-lead-to-terrorism.html http://consumerist.com/2009/07/apple-argues-jailbreaking-iph...

zzzmarcus 17y ago

To me, this seems like another reason to buy a Mac. It'll cost you more than the PC (even after optimization) but you don't have to deal with either the mysterious optimizations or uninstalling a bunch of promotional garbage and running endless updates. With the Mac, you open your computer, run Software Update once and you're good to go. In my opinion, that alone justifies the higher price.

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protomyth 17y ago

So, let's say you are a manufacturer. You take money from all these software products and install their wares on your computers. Margins are tight, and this seems the only way to make a profit. Let's also say you are one of the brands sold at Best Buy. At some point, isn't one of the software providers going to want their money back from Best Buy sales since Best Buy is removing their "advertising"?

zck 17y ago
Only because the advertisers will complain, and because it's a reason to get a mac [1]. Say Best Buy removed the crapware ads for free, and the advertisers didn't complain. I'm sure Dell couldn't care less, as it's actually a better experience for the user. [1] As far as I know, no one offers "optimization" on a mac, so buying one is less annoying. EDIT: this is wrong: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1032781 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1032781

gcb 17y ago

free advice for bestbuy. 1. go to ubuntu.com 2. order a zillion live install cds. 3. give one to every consumer that buys a pc or mac. 4. be able to claim performance and virus free optimization without consumerist eating them alive.

waterlesscloud 17y ago

I have walked into a Best Buy, ready to make a computer purchase on the spot. And then walked out because I could not buy what I wanted without their "optimizations". I simply will not deal with retailers who do this.

dspeyer 17y ago

Let's be fair. 3dmark is a horrible way to test if cleanup helped. It's mostly gpu limited, and that tends to be unaffected by OEM crap. Rendering a complex webpage, launching an office suite, or watching high-def flash video would be more useful tests. I am not volunteering to do these tests.