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> It's not like the U.S. is debating whether women should have Pap smears every two years or every three years. As an American, that sounds like an fairly accu

> It's not like the U.S. is debating whether women should have Pap smears every two years or every three years. As an American, that sounds like an fairly accurate summary to me. A sizable number of US elected officials are fighting to defund/shutdown the largest women's healthcare provider in the nation. But regardless of any opinions on that specific issue -- It seems completely rational to me that the international community might consider American currency "higher risk", when we're increasingly threatening to shut down our federal government over reasonably-straightforward issues that most developed nations resolved decades ago (like healthcare). I assume our multiple recent debt-ceiling crises probably add to that risk profile too.

humanrebar 11y ago
There's a fight to stop providing public funds for abortion-providers, especially given recent discoveries about, to put it charitably, gaffes and ethical lapses on the part of Planned Parenthood, an organization that exists, both in philosophy and financially, due to the abortions it provides. Congress is wholly empowered to pass any budget it likes. If President Obama wants to veto a budget to cater to a special interest group, I suppose that's his right, too. We obviously don't want that, but the White House and Congress aren't exactly looking for joint action on this. The frustrating thing about this whole controversy is that there are compromises here (like bringing late-term abortion restrictions in line with international norms), but entrenched special interests are pushing nuclear options since nobody can stomach understanding their opponents. As a community heavier in skeptics and rationalists than the general public, I would hope HN and the tech community to be good examples in promoting understanding and finding compromise.
- ArkyBeagle 11y ago
  But the ability to project a disinterest in compromise is how our elected officials wave the bloody shirt in pursuit of electoral capital. Where's the media outlet that specializes in moderation and compromise? There isn't one. Perhaps reason.com but not in an electorally interesting way. You have generators of stories of barbarism on the Right and stories of oppression on the Left.
- eli_gottlieb 11y ago
  >Congress is wholly empowered to pass any budget it likes. Yes, and the international community is wholly empowered to consider Congress a risk to the financial stability of the United States if it takes decisions that look like they're risking the financial stability of the United States. Congress has no power to dictate how other people view them; quite the opposite, they're supposed to be held accountable to others' view of them! >As a community heavier in skeptics and rationalists than the general public, I would hope HN and the tech community to be good examples in promoting understanding and finding compromise. Skepticism and rationality are about arriving to correct conclusions, not about pouring on the Fallacy of the Golden Mean until suddenly "compromising" on a policy that annual government shutdowns are a "reasonable" way to maintain currency values.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  > There's a fight to stop providing public funds for abortion-providers, especially given recent discoveries about, to put it charitably, gaffes and ethical lapses on the part of Planned Parenthood, an organization that exists, both in philosophy and financially, due to the abortions it provides. 3% of the services Planned Parenthood provides are abortion-related: https://twitter.com/emschuch/status/649690759453646848 https://twitter.com/emschuch/status/649690759453646848 Also, Planned Parenthood has been found to be doing nothing wrong by offering fetal tissue from abortions at cost, with the permission of the patient: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2015/0928/Planned-Parenthood-investigation-Missouri-AG-finds-no-wrongdoing http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2015/0928/Planned-Paren... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/congress-planned-parenthood-investigation_55f044b7e4b03784e2774632 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/congress-planned-parenth... http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/investigations-turn-no-planned-parenthood-wrongdoing http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/investigations-turn-... Planned Parenthood exists to provide healthcare services to women, full stop. Abortions are only a very small part of those services, legal services I might add. Progress, as usual, occurs one funeral at a time (old people dying with their no-longer-relevant views).
  - humanrebar 11y ago
    Planned Parenthood does over 300k abortions per year. The 3% number comes from a dubious counting of 1 abortion being the same thing as handing out 1 bottle of birth control pills or performing one STD test. On the contrary, about 94% of pregnancy cases handled by PP end in abortions. http://www.sba-list.org/sites/default/files/content/shared/12.31.14fact_sheet_pp_2013_2014_annual_report.pdf http://www.sba-list.org/sites/default/files/content/shared/1... It's kind of a weird argument to act like abortion isn't core to Planned Parenthood. If it weren't that important, PP could spin abortion services into a separate organization. And then the conscientious objectors out there would have much less to complain about.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      > It's kind of a weird argument to act like abortion isn't core to Planned Parenthood. No, the weird argument is "We shouldn't fund Planned Parenthood because they provide a legal service we don't like." Same sex marriage got here eventually, the legalization of marijuana will come to pass across the entire country in the next 3-6 years, and abortion too won't be fought over as soon as more conservative voters pass on (which no longer necessitates a republican party that must cater to its extremists). Conservative talking points and beliefs are almost like zombies; dead, just not knowing it.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

humanrebar 11y ago

There's a fight to stop providing public funds for abortion-providers, especially given recent discoveries about, to put it charitably, gaffes and ethical lapses on the part of Planned Parenthood, an organization that exists, both in philosophy and financially, due to the abortions it provides. Congress is wholly empowered to pass any budget it likes. If President Obama wants to veto a budget to cater to a special interest group, I suppose that's his right, too. We obviously don't want that, but the White House and Congress aren't exactly looking for joint action on this. The frustrating thing about this whole controversy is that there are compromises here (like bringing late-term abortion restrictions in line with international norms), but entrenched special interests are pushing nuclear options since nobody can stomach understanding their opponents. As a community heavier in skeptics and rationalists than the general public, I would hope HN and the tech community to be good examples in promoting understanding and finding compromise.

ArkyBeagle 11y ago
But the ability to project a disinterest in compromise is how our elected officials wave the bloody shirt in pursuit of electoral capital. Where's the media outlet that specializes in moderation and compromise? There isn't one. Perhaps reason.com but not in an electorally interesting way. You have generators of stories of barbarism on the Right and stories of oppression on the Left.
eli_gottlieb 11y ago
>Congress is wholly empowered to pass any budget it likes. Yes, and the international community is wholly empowered to consider Congress a risk to the financial stability of the United States if it takes decisions that look like they're risking the financial stability of the United States. Congress has no power to dictate how other people view them; quite the opposite, they're supposed to be held accountable to others' view of them! >As a community heavier in skeptics and rationalists than the general public, I would hope HN and the tech community to be good examples in promoting understanding and finding compromise. Skepticism and rationality are about arriving to correct conclusions, not about pouring on the Fallacy of the Golden Mean until suddenly "compromising" on a policy that annual government shutdowns are a "reasonable" way to maintain currency values.
toomuchtodo 11y ago
> There's a fight to stop providing public funds for abortion-providers, especially given recent discoveries about, to put it charitably, gaffes and ethical lapses on the part of Planned Parenthood, an organization that exists, both in philosophy and financially, due to the abortions it provides. 3% of the services Planned Parenthood provides are abortion-related: https://twitter.com/emschuch/status/649690759453646848 https://twitter.com/emschuch/status/649690759453646848 Also, Planned Parenthood has been found to be doing nothing wrong by offering fetal tissue from abortions at cost, with the permission of the patient: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2015/0928/Planned-Parenthood-investigation-Missouri-AG-finds-no-wrongdoing http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2015/0928/Planned-Paren... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/congress-planned-parenthood-investigation_55f044b7e4b03784e2774632 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/congress-planned-parenth... http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/investigations-turn-no-planned-parenthood-wrongdoing http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/investigations-turn-... Planned Parenthood exists to provide healthcare services to women, full stop. Abortions are only a very small part of those services, legal services I might add. Progress, as usual, occurs one funeral at a time (old people dying with their no-longer-relevant views).
- humanrebar 11y ago
  Planned Parenthood does over 300k abortions per year. The 3% number comes from a dubious counting of 1 abortion being the same thing as handing out 1 bottle of birth control pills or performing one STD test. On the contrary, about 94% of pregnancy cases handled by PP end in abortions. http://www.sba-list.org/sites/default/files/content/shared/12.31.14fact_sheet_pp_2013_2014_annual_report.pdf http://www.sba-list.org/sites/default/files/content/shared/1... It's kind of a weird argument to act like abortion isn't core to Planned Parenthood. If it weren't that important, PP could spin abortion services into a separate organization. And then the conscientious objectors out there would have much less to complain about.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    > It's kind of a weird argument to act like abortion isn't core to Planned Parenthood. No, the weird argument is "We shouldn't fund Planned Parenthood because they provide a legal service we don't like." Same sex marriage got here eventually, the legalization of marijuana will come to pass across the entire country in the next 3-6 years, and abortion too won't be fought over as soon as more conservative voters pass on (which no longer necessitates a republican party that must cater to its extremists). Conservative talking points and beliefs are almost like zombies; dead, just not knowing it.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]