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Making an anecdotal contribution. Kenyan here. I have observed that white people are given preferential treatment and have (strangely) experienced racism agains

Making an anecdotal contribution. Kenyan here. I have observed that white people are given preferential treatment and have (strangely) experienced racism against black people in my own country. I have, more than once heard people, mostly uneducated people, saying how much better things would be if we were still colonized. Examples of preferential treatment/racism include, faster service for white people at restaurants and clubs, being denied entry to a club because 'it is full' and seconds later a couple of white people walk right in, and in one memorable instance a security guard had the gall to try and deny me an open parking spot so that a white person could have it instead. The latter got a stern talking to by me. All is not positive for the white man though. There is the 'white tax' where prices are instantly increased when a white person is the one shopping and people are always hitting them up for money because white people are perceived to be wealthy.

klipt 11y ago
Sorry to hear that. I imagine the 'white tax' and better 'white service' are both caused by the belief that white people are wealthier. The club might expect a wealthier person to spend more, or a security guard might expect them to tip better. So it's somewhat rational (if unfortunate) to give wealthier people preferential service. I guess the long term solution is to reduce economic inequality between racial groups.
deleted 11y ago
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ardit33 11y ago
I hate to say it, but it doesn't have to do much with race, but more of the perception of "status" of the person. I have been in Sweden few times (I am white), and when people hear me talk, and know that I am visiting from NYC, I get a bit of more friendlier service. Including getting in a club as a single guy, because I had a california ID, while some Swedish guys were being left outside. Swedes have a high affinity for America in general, and are extra friendly if they hear you are from the States, and often (with some small talk) you will get preferential treatment. In NYC you will notice this "differential" treatment according to your status every day. A simple experiment you can run: Go to a good cocktail place/bar with normal t-shirt/jeans clothes, and go to the same place dressed sharp. You will get a lot better and faster service if you are dressed really well (and your perceived status is higher), while if you are dressed like a schlub, you might not even get in the place. I think it is not just about race, but more of the perceived status of the person. It happens that most countries in Africa have very low GDPs, while most countries in Europe, and north america (US and Canada), have very high GDP. If you are an average person from those countries, your purchasing power is higher, and hence you will be given the preferential treatment.
- astazangasta 11y ago
  It becomes about race in a post colonial country where race and status are deeply intertwined; saying it is about status doesn't mean it is not also about race.
- deleted 11y ago
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- calibraxis 11y ago
  Much of this falls under the phenomenon of "internalized racism". (This generalizes, so women can be sexist against other women; those in poverty can be classist against other poor people. To take a recent interview: "Women are always the first to discredit other women, likely because they’ve personally experienced something worse and didn’t or couldn’t speak up for themselves." https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/interview-with-julie-ann-horvath https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/interview-with-julie-ann... ) When discussing racism, it's not just about racist emotions. Also about institutional outcomes, which can be impersonal.
  - rustynails 11y ago
    I believe there is much more to it than meets the eye. For example, a culture that biased hiring based on gender/skin colour encourages hiring and protecting of incompetent staff. My wife dislikes one (one) of her female colleagues because she's incompetent and protected (ala political correctness). This red forces the notion of incompetence. When I go to Asia, I may be given preferential treatment, I may not be. I have also been treated badly - other locals apologised and excused those people as racist, and I would agree. There are many shades of distinction in these discussions. The link to Julie Ann's Article strict me as superficial, anecdotal and selective in its assessments. Like the "black doll vs white doll" tests, these are a very flimsy basis to make an assessment. How did the children go with black vs white covered books? What about black vs white rocks? Q: why is everyone saying white man when it should be white person? I think that statement says a lot about how people think.
- SilasX 11y ago
  Okay, but I'm pretty sure in Kenya, it's partially about race. There was a story a while back about the wealthy there paying a premium to see white people do the restaurant's dirty work: http://m.independent.mk//articles/10478/Nairobi's+Latest+Novelty+High-End+Mac+and+Chese,+Served+by+Whites http://m.independent.mk//articles/10478/Nairobi's+Latest+Nov...
smtddr 11y ago
>>All is not positive for the white man though. There is the 'white tax' where prices are instantly increased when a white person is the one shopping and people are always hitting them up for money because white people are perceived to be wealthy. They're not wrong, they assume a healthy looking white man in Kenya must have money. Honestly, it's hard for me to imagine any situation where a healthy looking white man in Kenya would be poor. Also, as a American born Nigerian myself, when I'm in Nigeria my relatives there have to do the bargaining. I might look like every other Nigerian, but the moment I open my mouth revealing my "oyinbo"(white people) accent, the price doubles for anything.
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stuxnet79 11y ago
Kenyan here as well. I too lament how Kenyans always treat foreigners better than they treat their own. Your story reminds me of the time when a Chinese restaurant in Nairobi was denying entry to black Kenyans [1], and this policy had persisted for a very long time, and nobody had the courage to step up and speak about it, up until the constant media exposure embarrassed people into speaking about it. When I travel to other countries I have to deal with prejudice and racism, it is just a major drag that I experience the same in my own country. Anecdotal contribution as well, but I've noticed that Nigerians and various other West Africans tend to be more comfortable in their own skin than Kenyans, although I'm sure you'd hear similar stories of this type from them as well. [1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3010690/No-blacks-Chinese-restaurant-shut-Kenya.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3010690/No-blacks-Ch...
threatofrain 11y ago
This is the same way in China for clubs and restaurants and such, but I think it's just for marketing.

klipt 11y ago

Sorry to hear that. I imagine the 'white tax' and better 'white service' are both caused by the belief that white people are wealthier. The club might expect a wealthier person to spend more, or a security guard might expect them to tip better. So it's somewhat rational (if unfortunate) to give wealthier people preferential service. I guess the long term solution is to reduce economic inequality between racial groups.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

ardit33 11y ago

I hate to say it, but it doesn't have to do much with race, but more of the perception of "status" of the person. I have been in Sweden few times (I am white), and when people hear me talk, and know that I am visiting from NYC, I get a bit of more friendlier service. Including getting in a club as a single guy, because I had a california ID, while some Swedish guys were being left outside. Swedes have a high affinity for America in general, and are extra friendly if they hear you are from the States, and often (with some small talk) you will get preferential treatment. In NYC you will notice this "differential" treatment according to your status every day. A simple experiment you can run: Go to a good cocktail place/bar with normal t-shirt/jeans clothes, and go to the same place dressed sharp. You will get a lot better and faster service if you are dressed really well (and your perceived status is higher), while if you are dressed like a schlub, you might not even get in the place. I think it is not just about race, but more of the perceived status of the person. It happens that most countries in Africa have very low GDPs, while most countries in Europe, and north america (US and Canada), have very high GDP. If you are an average person from those countries, your purchasing power is higher, and hence you will be given the preferential treatment.

astazangasta 11y ago
It becomes about race in a post colonial country where race and status are deeply intertwined; saying it is about status doesn't mean it is not also about race.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
calibraxis 11y ago
Much of this falls under the phenomenon of "internalized racism". (This generalizes, so women can be sexist against other women; those in poverty can be classist against other poor people. To take a recent interview: "Women are always the first to discredit other women, likely because they’ve personally experienced something worse and didn’t or couldn’t speak up for themselves." https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/interview-with-julie-ann-horvath https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/interview-with-julie-ann... ) When discussing racism, it's not just about racist emotions. Also about institutional outcomes, which can be impersonal.
- rustynails 11y ago
  I believe there is much more to it than meets the eye. For example, a culture that biased hiring based on gender/skin colour encourages hiring and protecting of incompetent staff. My wife dislikes one (one) of her female colleagues because she's incompetent and protected (ala political correctness). This red forces the notion of incompetence. When I go to Asia, I may be given preferential treatment, I may not be. I have also been treated badly - other locals apologised and excused those people as racist, and I would agree. There are many shades of distinction in these discussions. The link to Julie Ann's Article strict me as superficial, anecdotal and selective in its assessments. Like the "black doll vs white doll" tests, these are a very flimsy basis to make an assessment. How did the children go with black vs white covered books? What about black vs white rocks? Q: why is everyone saying white man when it should be white person? I think that statement says a lot about how people think.
SilasX 11y ago
Okay, but I'm pretty sure in Kenya, it's partially about race. There was a story a while back about the wealthy there paying a premium to see white people do the restaurant's dirty work: http://m.independent.mk//articles/10478/Nairobi's+Latest+Novelty+High-End+Mac+and+Chese,+Served+by+Whites http://m.independent.mk//articles/10478/Nairobi's+Latest+Nov...

smtddr 11y ago

>>All is not positive for the white man though. There is the 'white tax' where prices are instantly increased when a white person is the one shopping and people are always hitting them up for money because white people are perceived to be wealthy. They're not wrong, they assume a healthy looking white man in Kenya must have money. Honestly, it's hard for me to imagine any situation where a healthy looking white man in Kenya would be poor. Also, as a American born Nigerian myself, when I'm in Nigeria my relatives there have to do the bargaining. I might look like every other Nigerian, but the moment I open my mouth revealing my "oyinbo"(white people) accent, the price doubles for anything.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

stuxnet79 11y ago

Kenyan here as well. I too lament how Kenyans always treat foreigners better than they treat their own. Your story reminds me of the time when a Chinese restaurant in Nairobi was denying entry to black Kenyans [1], and this policy had persisted for a very long time, and nobody had the courage to step up and speak about it, up until the constant media exposure embarrassed people into speaking about it. When I travel to other countries I have to deal with prejudice and racism, it is just a major drag that I experience the same in my own country. Anecdotal contribution as well, but I've noticed that Nigerians and various other West Africans tend to be more comfortable in their own skin than Kenyans, although I'm sure you'd hear similar stories of this type from them as well. [1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3010690/No-blacks-Chinese-restaurant-shut-Kenya.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3010690/No-blacks-Ch...

threatofrain 11y ago

This is the same way in China for clubs and restaurants and such, but I think it's just for marketing.