7 ms·

I just wonder if it would help some patients, if you could buy placebos. I mean branded placebos: "This is the placebo used in trial x and y and shown to have p

by jonsen 17y ago

I just wonder if it would help some patients, if you could buy placebos. I mean branded placebos: "This is the placebo used in trial x and y and shown to have positive effect on z and w".

ugh 17y ago
That might be an ethical way to sell placebos (homeopathy is at the moment demonstrating the unethical one) — I just don't know whether it would be as effective. Are placebos also effective when you know fully well that you take nothing more than a sugar pill? I don't think so.
- jonsen 17y ago
  You know you are taking a sugar pill with a demonstrated effect. That might do it. How would you do a trial for that? Placebo placebo?
  - patio11 17y ago
    You could offer multiple placebos. For example, here you have your basic generic white placebo which costs $5 a pill, which we all know is totally worthless because it is made out of sugar. Now, you sir are insured, so if you want you can have this cutting edge blue PlaCeBo (TM) -- just between you and me, it costs like $80 a pill and has nothing in it but sugar but who cares, insurance covers it. Alternatively we have the PlaSeBo which is the cheap Chinese knockoff and hasn't killed anybody this week that we know of, not that that is too surprising, because it is made out of sugar.
  - charltones 17y ago
    There have been trials of placebos against placebos. That's how it has been established that more placebos are more effective than fewer and also how the shape and colour of the tablets relates to their effectiveness. If you want some references on this, look up Bad Science by Ben Goldacre. It's a good read, btw.
- nhoj 17y ago
  What if there is no psychological effect? Maybe the sugar pill is a weak panacea for all our ills.
- jonp 17y ago
  Apparently placebos are effective, even when you know it's a placebo. See http://www.placebo.com.au/node/31 http://www.placebo.com.au/node/31 for a reference to research on this (on the site of a company that sells placebos...)
  - roqetman 17y ago
    It's kind of like band-aids for kids - they cure all manner of ills (even when there is no wound).
  - nandemo 17y ago
    Interesting, but I'm skeptical. 'Non-blind' means that patients were informed that the pills they were issued were totally inert, that they were placebos, and in this case they were also assured that despite this the pills would be of benefit to them. The study concluded: 'The primary finding is that patients can be willing to take placebo and can improve despite disclosure of the inert content of the pills; belief in pill as drug was not a requirement for improvement.' They tell the subjects something that's bound to be confusing to most people. I don't know that there wasn't "belief in the pill as a drug". If the test were done only with subjects with a scientific background, or if they omitted the assertion about the benefit, it would be more convincing.
- wmeredith 17y ago
  No they are not. This is Homeopathy "works".
hnhg 17y ago
I initially read your comment as 'I wonder if it would help (them) to patent placebos" and then reading it properly realised my mistake. I'm sure there have to be some in the pharma industry hoping to turn this into a moneyspinner somehow.
shawndumas 17y ago
Obecalp: "Ms. Buettner, 40, who lives in Severna Park, Md., with her husband, 7-month-old son and 22-month-old twins, envisioned a children’s placebo tablet that would empower parents to do something tangible for minor ills and reduce the unnecessary use of antibiotics and other medicines. With the help of her husband, Dennis, she founded a placebo company, and, without a hint of irony, named it Efficacy Brands. Its chewable, cherry-flavored dextrose tablets, Obecalp, for placebo spelled backward, goes on sale on June 1 at the Efficacy Brands Web site. Bottles of 50 tablets will sell for $5.95. The Buettners have plans for a liquid version, too." http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/27/health/27plac.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/27/health/27plac.html
- run4yourlives 17y ago
  All well and good until some kid dies because his mom gave him Obecalp instead of his Cancer drugs because she thought it was "all in his head". I seriously hope they've had their lawyers do their homework on this one.

by jonsen 17y ago

I just wonder if it would help some patients, if you could buy placebos. I mean branded placebos: "This is the placebo used in trial x and y and shown to have positive effect on z and w".

ugh 17y ago

That might be an ethical way to sell placebos (homeopathy is at the moment demonstrating the unethical one) — I just don't know whether it would be as effective. Are placebos also effective when you know fully well that you take nothing more than a sugar pill? I don't think so.

jonsen 17y ago
You know you are taking a sugar pill with a demonstrated effect. That might do it. How would you do a trial for that? Placebo placebo?
- patio11 17y ago
  You could offer multiple placebos. For example, here you have your basic generic white placebo which costs $5 a pill, which we all know is totally worthless because it is made out of sugar. Now, you sir are insured, so if you want you can have this cutting edge blue PlaCeBo (TM) -- just between you and me, it costs like $80 a pill and has nothing in it but sugar but who cares, insurance covers it. Alternatively we have the PlaSeBo which is the cheap Chinese knockoff and hasn't killed anybody this week that we know of, not that that is too surprising, because it is made out of sugar.
- charltones 17y ago
  There have been trials of placebos against placebos. That's how it has been established that more placebos are more effective than fewer and also how the shape and colour of the tablets relates to their effectiveness. If you want some references on this, look up Bad Science by Ben Goldacre. It's a good read, btw.
nhoj 17y ago
What if there is no psychological effect? Maybe the sugar pill is a weak panacea for all our ills.
jonp 17y ago
Apparently placebos are effective, even when you know it's a placebo. See http://www.placebo.com.au/node/31 http://www.placebo.com.au/node/31 for a reference to research on this (on the site of a company that sells placebos...)
- roqetman 17y ago
  It's kind of like band-aids for kids - they cure all manner of ills (even when there is no wound).
- nandemo 17y ago
  Interesting, but I'm skeptical. 'Non-blind' means that patients were informed that the pills they were issued were totally inert, that they were placebos, and in this case they were also assured that despite this the pills would be of benefit to them. The study concluded: 'The primary finding is that patients can be willing to take placebo and can improve despite disclosure of the inert content of the pills; belief in pill as drug was not a requirement for improvement.' They tell the subjects something that's bound to be confusing to most people. I don't know that there wasn't "belief in the pill as a drug". If the test were done only with subjects with a scientific background, or if they omitted the assertion about the benefit, it would be more convincing.
wmeredith 17y ago
No they are not. This is Homeopathy "works".

hnhg 17y ago

I initially read your comment as 'I wonder if it would help (them) to patent placebos" and then reading it properly realised my mistake. I'm sure there have to be some in the pharma industry hoping to turn this into a moneyspinner somehow.

shawndumas 17y ago

Obecalp: "Ms. Buettner, 40, who lives in Severna Park, Md., with her husband, 7-month-old son and 22-month-old twins, envisioned a children’s placebo tablet that would empower parents to do something tangible for minor ills and reduce the unnecessary use of antibiotics and other medicines. With the help of her husband, Dennis, she founded a placebo company, and, without a hint of irony, named it Efficacy Brands. Its chewable, cherry-flavored dextrose tablets, Obecalp, for placebo spelled backward, goes on sale on June 1 at the Efficacy Brands Web site. Bottles of 50 tablets will sell for $5.95. The Buettners have plans for a liquid version, too." http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/27/health/27plac.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/27/health/27plac.html

run4yourlives 17y ago
All well and good until some kid dies because his mom gave him Obecalp instead of his Cancer drugs because she thought it was "all in his head". I seriously hope they've had their lawyers do their homework on this one.