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I hope the article didn't come across that way. We're all developers passionate about the movement, love hacking on projects, and decided to come together and b

I hope the article didn't come across that way. We're all developers passionate about the movement, love hacking on projects, and decided to come together and build cool things. All developers are welcome if you have an idea and want to work with people on it - come join! https://www.reddit.com/r/CodersForSanders https://www.reddit.com/r/CodersForSanders and http://slack.forsanders.com http://slack.forsanders.com and

um_ya 11y ago
Bernie Sanders has promised everything to everybody. I would say he has the least credibility than any other candidate (and that's saying a lot considering how shitty the lineup is), because at least the other candidates don't make such ridiculous promises like he does... Seriously, how are you going to give people free healthcare, free education, free [insert entitlement program]. His plan of action, "tax the rich more". What a joke.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  I know, right? Why isn't he promising to defund planned parenthood, build a wall on the Mexican border, and defund the government for ideological reasons! /s It's funny really. I've never been political until Bernie Sanders has come along, and I believe all of his policies are practical to implement (yes, universal healthcare and free education is easy, stop spending as much on the military as the next top 10 countries combined). I'm volunteering for his campaign, helping with Coders For Sanders, and am maxing out my campaign contributions. Perhaps its because I've always leaned a bit to the left, and have reached the end of my rope with conservative crazies.
  - vvanders 11y ago
    +1 you'll see that he regularly references other countries that have already done this. I'm esp a fan of Germany's education track, and having worked in crunch-heavy industries having something like a working time directive would be a Good Thing(tm).
    - vasilipupkin 11y ago
      other countries have done stuff that isn't quite what he proposes. They have very high taxes on the middle class, relatively low taxes on the rich ( via various loop holes and investment tax breaks ) and restrictions on who can go to free college. So, if you want to copy German or Swedish system, then be honest that it will require middle class taxation double of what it is now. Otherwise, Bernie's whole campaign is nothing more than a more civil version of Trump's "we'll be winning so much you'll be tired of winning" schtick
  - nemothekid 11y ago
    >(yes, universal healthcare and free education is easy, stop spending as much on the military as the next top 10 countries combined) I think this statement further reinforces the GP's point. Simply "stop funding the military" isn't "easy" - and I doubt it is something that can be done over a 4 year term. Most of the military's budget are salaries, not just soldiers but likely millions of factory workers who produce a wide range of products for the military. While the question of "are the products they produce useful" is grey, the fact is you'd have to start by laying off millions of Americans and likely damaging the many smaller towns that have come to depend that income source. While its simple to just state "defund the military" the truth is much more complex and likely an even greater political minefield. If he does win the election, if he were to pull off that move, I doubt he would have the political strength to keep a trajectory going for a second election. As much as I believe that free education should be a thing, I believe that is also a minefield. How will schools be funded? Does the government pay the inflated tuitions, or do we solve the student loan problem first? Will we be forced to massively scale back the amount of people who attend 4-year schools (currently around 70% in the US vs. 30% in Germany)? And then to seemingly do this by "just taxing the rich"? It seems that people forget that the President just doesn't wake up one day and decide what to tax people at - it's in part decided by congress (as well as many of the other issues) - and it just seems unlikely that he'll make good on everything he is promising. Personally, I believe Bernie to be a sound candidate, but um_ya has a point.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      > While the question of "are the products they produce useful" is grey, the fact is you'd have to start by laying off millions of Americans and likely damaging the many small towns that have come to depend that income source. So we get to the crux that a large portion of the US military is a jobs and rural support program. Perhaps we'll start with the albatross that is the Joint Strike Fighter, estimated at costing over a $1 trillion dollars during its lifecycle. > While its simple to just state "defund the military" the truth is much more complex and likely an even greater political minefield. The truth isn't complex, but it is a political quagmire. You need someone with a spine to get the work done. > As much as I believe that free education should be a thing, I believe that is also a minefield. How will schools be funded? Does the government pay the inflated tuitions, or do we solve the student loan problem first? Will we forced to massively scale back the amount of people who attend 4-year schools (currently around 70% in the US vs. 30% in Germany)? The cost of education has skyrocketed because the US government backs loans you can't default on, therefore schools raise their rates (which is what happens when demand is inelastic, because you've been told all your life you can't get a well-paying job without a degree, and employers can require a degree without financial cost to them). You apply the same premise Medicare does: If your students don't learn, you don't get paid. We then take a page from the Affordable Care Act and require at least 85-90% of tuition funds to go to actual teaching, and not administration, leisure activities/clubs, and other non-core expenses. > And then to seemingly do this by "just taxing the rich"? It seems that people forget that the President just doesn't wake up one day and decide what to tax people at - it's in part decided by congress (as well as many of the other issues) - and it just seems unlikely that he'll make good on everything he is promising. Yes. I want a democratic candidate who is willing to call out Congress. Sanders is the only candidate with the character to do this. > Personally, I believe Bernie to be a sound candidate, but um_ya has a point. Of course he's a sound candidate. And no, um_ya has no point.
  - eli_gottlieb 11y ago
    >Perhaps its because I've always leaned a bit to the left, and have reached the end of my rope with conservative crazies. It's also because Bernie is one of the first candidates in recent years to build his campaign entirely on a policy platform. If someone asks him a leading question to get him into personal bickering for the sake of a sound bite, he tells them to go away until they have a real question. All he wants to do is debate policy issues. So anyone can go ahead and disagree with him, but his meta-level goal is a fucking necessity: make politics be about policy again.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      Yes, incredibly true.
- theworstshill 11y ago
  this guy gets it. Whose gonna be paying for all this crap?
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    As an American, you're already paying for it. You're just not getting what you paid for.
- apsec112 11y ago
  Please don't start political flamewars on HN. "Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - hugh4 11y ago
    Does this whole article count? Does it say anything fundamentally new or is it just a Sanders puff piece (of the type that his followers are currently spamming to every darn social news site in existence) which just happens to have a vague programmingish flavour?
    - chillwaves 11y ago
      The article is directly about the coding community.
    - AlexCoventry 11y ago
      The amount of creativity which is going into Coders for Sanders is a pretty remarkable development.
- yequalsx 11y ago
  There are lots of examples of countries that provide their citizens with universal healthcare, near free higher education and a strong social welfare system. It's not a joke if there are many examples of this. It could be considered a joke in that it's unlikely his opponents in Congress would vote for such programs and that they'll ridicule it as you have. However, that does not negate that it is feasible to have such things or even reasonable to expect them.
  - rhino369 11y ago
    It's certainly feasible, but not by the sorts of taxes he proposes. European countries make up the difference in revenue by having much higher taxation on the middle class. The middle class in Europe doesn't get free healthcare and free education. They pay for it in higher taxation. So unless the Bern wants a significant VAT tax and increased income taxes on middle income earners, his plans are crazy.
    - refurb 11y ago
      You raise a good point. People talk about taxing the rich more, but guess what? There aren't that many rich! In order to substantially raise gov't spending, the middle class will need to pay more. This reminds me of a Canadian election back in the 1990s. The NDP (left wing) wanted to fund more programs by increasing the taxes on the "rich". So someone asked who the "rich" were. A family of 4 making over $60,000. At least they were honest!
      - pandaman 11y ago
        Just today I walked past a new BMW in the garage with a "Bernie" sticker on it. I am not sure it was in support of Sanders but even if it were not it's the perfect symbol of the engineers from the OP: people driving new BMWs supporting taxing "the rich" as if "the rich" are not them.
        politician 11y ago
        You're engaging in a logical fallacy; have you considered that the people driving the new BMWs might consider themselves to be rich --or-- might nevertheless consider Bernie Sander's policy positions to be laudable?
- notNow 11y ago
  how are you going to give people free healthcare, free education... Like Germany, Canada, Sweden is doing or any other developed country with a reasonable social safety net and free market economy. It is not mission impossible like you make it sound to be
- JesperRavn 11y ago
  This thread is about how great it is that volunteers are coming together for a good cause. Let's keep politics out of it.
toomuchtodo 11y ago
Just joined the Coders For Sanders Slack team today, and I am blown away by the number of fellow tech professionals who've joined. Well done.
- atticoos 11y ago
  welcome! looking forward to seeing you around!
findjashua 11y ago
i see what you're saying. But if he's not paying them for their work, I think it'd be more 'kosher' to open source their code. And I say this as someone who supports Bernie (even though I can't vote here)
- DennisP 11y ago
  Or maybe open source the code after the election, just so it's not Coders for Sanders, O'Malley, Etc.
  - findjashua 11y ago
    fair point
- iraphael 11y ago
  I don't know if this encompasses all of the CfS projects, but the reddit links to this: https://github.com/SandersForPresident https://github.com/SandersForPresident So at least some of the work is open source
- atticoos 11y ago
  Absolutely agreed. We open source just about all of our projects under GNUA licensing over at https://github.com/SandersForPresident https://github.com/SandersForPresident

um_ya 11y ago

Bernie Sanders has promised everything to everybody. I would say he has the least credibility than any other candidate (and that's saying a lot considering how shitty the lineup is), because at least the other candidates don't make such ridiculous promises like he does... Seriously, how are you going to give people free healthcare, free education, free [insert entitlement program]. His plan of action, "tax the rich more". What a joke.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
I know, right? Why isn't he promising to defund planned parenthood, build a wall on the Mexican border, and defund the government for ideological reasons! /s It's funny really. I've never been political until Bernie Sanders has come along, and I believe all of his policies are practical to implement (yes, universal healthcare and free education is easy, stop spending as much on the military as the next top 10 countries combined). I'm volunteering for his campaign, helping with Coders For Sanders, and am maxing out my campaign contributions. Perhaps its because I've always leaned a bit to the left, and have reached the end of my rope with conservative crazies.
- vvanders 11y ago
  +1 you'll see that he regularly references other countries that have already done this. I'm esp a fan of Germany's education track, and having worked in crunch-heavy industries having something like a working time directive would be a Good Thing(tm).
  - vasilipupkin 11y ago
    other countries have done stuff that isn't quite what he proposes. They have very high taxes on the middle class, relatively low taxes on the rich ( via various loop holes and investment tax breaks ) and restrictions on who can go to free college. So, if you want to copy German or Swedish system, then be honest that it will require middle class taxation double of what it is now. Otherwise, Bernie's whole campaign is nothing more than a more civil version of Trump's "we'll be winning so much you'll be tired of winning" schtick
- nemothekid 11y ago
  >(yes, universal healthcare and free education is easy, stop spending as much on the military as the next top 10 countries combined) I think this statement further reinforces the GP's point. Simply "stop funding the military" isn't "easy" - and I doubt it is something that can be done over a 4 year term. Most of the military's budget are salaries, not just soldiers but likely millions of factory workers who produce a wide range of products for the military. While the question of "are the products they produce useful" is grey, the fact is you'd have to start by laying off millions of Americans and likely damaging the many smaller towns that have come to depend that income source. While its simple to just state "defund the military" the truth is much more complex and likely an even greater political minefield. If he does win the election, if he were to pull off that move, I doubt he would have the political strength to keep a trajectory going for a second election. As much as I believe that free education should be a thing, I believe that is also a minefield. How will schools be funded? Does the government pay the inflated tuitions, or do we solve the student loan problem first? Will we be forced to massively scale back the amount of people who attend 4-year schools (currently around 70% in the US vs. 30% in Germany)? And then to seemingly do this by "just taxing the rich"? It seems that people forget that the President just doesn't wake up one day and decide what to tax people at - it's in part decided by congress (as well as many of the other issues) - and it just seems unlikely that he'll make good on everything he is promising. Personally, I believe Bernie to be a sound candidate, but um_ya has a point.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    > While the question of "are the products they produce useful" is grey, the fact is you'd have to start by laying off millions of Americans and likely damaging the many small towns that have come to depend that income source. So we get to the crux that a large portion of the US military is a jobs and rural support program. Perhaps we'll start with the albatross that is the Joint Strike Fighter, estimated at costing over a $1 trillion dollars during its lifecycle. > While its simple to just state "defund the military" the truth is much more complex and likely an even greater political minefield. The truth isn't complex, but it is a political quagmire. You need someone with a spine to get the work done. > As much as I believe that free education should be a thing, I believe that is also a minefield. How will schools be funded? Does the government pay the inflated tuitions, or do we solve the student loan problem first? Will we forced to massively scale back the amount of people who attend 4-year schools (currently around 70% in the US vs. 30% in Germany)? The cost of education has skyrocketed because the US government backs loans you can't default on, therefore schools raise their rates (which is what happens when demand is inelastic, because you've been told all your life you can't get a well-paying job without a degree, and employers can require a degree without financial cost to them). You apply the same premise Medicare does: If your students don't learn, you don't get paid. We then take a page from the Affordable Care Act and require at least 85-90% of tuition funds to go to actual teaching, and not administration, leisure activities/clubs, and other non-core expenses. > And then to seemingly do this by "just taxing the rich"? It seems that people forget that the President just doesn't wake up one day and decide what to tax people at - it's in part decided by congress (as well as many of the other issues) - and it just seems unlikely that he'll make good on everything he is promising. Yes. I want a democratic candidate who is willing to call out Congress. Sanders is the only candidate with the character to do this. > Personally, I believe Bernie to be a sound candidate, but um_ya has a point. Of course he's a sound candidate. And no, um_ya has no point.
- eli_gottlieb 11y ago
  >Perhaps its because I've always leaned a bit to the left, and have reached the end of my rope with conservative crazies. It's also because Bernie is one of the first candidates in recent years to build his campaign entirely on a policy platform. If someone asks him a leading question to get him into personal bickering for the sake of a sound bite, he tells them to go away until they have a real question. All he wants to do is debate policy issues. So anyone can go ahead and disagree with him, but his meta-level goal is a fucking necessity: make politics be about policy again.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Yes, incredibly true.
theworstshill 11y ago
this guy gets it. Whose gonna be paying for all this crap?
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  As an American, you're already paying for it. You're just not getting what you paid for.
apsec112 11y ago
Please don't start political flamewars on HN. "Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- hugh4 11y ago
  Does this whole article count? Does it say anything fundamentally new or is it just a Sanders puff piece (of the type that his followers are currently spamming to every darn social news site in existence) which just happens to have a vague programmingish flavour?
  - chillwaves 11y ago
    The article is directly about the coding community.
  - AlexCoventry 11y ago
    The amount of creativity which is going into Coders for Sanders is a pretty remarkable development.
yequalsx 11y ago
There are lots of examples of countries that provide their citizens with universal healthcare, near free higher education and a strong social welfare system. It's not a joke if there are many examples of this. It could be considered a joke in that it's unlikely his opponents in Congress would vote for such programs and that they'll ridicule it as you have. However, that does not negate that it is feasible to have such things or even reasonable to expect them.
- rhino369 11y ago
  It's certainly feasible, but not by the sorts of taxes he proposes. European countries make up the difference in revenue by having much higher taxation on the middle class. The middle class in Europe doesn't get free healthcare and free education. They pay for it in higher taxation. So unless the Bern wants a significant VAT tax and increased income taxes on middle income earners, his plans are crazy.
  - refurb 11y ago
    You raise a good point. People talk about taxing the rich more, but guess what? There aren't that many rich! In order to substantially raise gov't spending, the middle class will need to pay more. This reminds me of a Canadian election back in the 1990s. The NDP (left wing) wanted to fund more programs by increasing the taxes on the "rich". So someone asked who the "rich" were. A family of 4 making over $60,000. At least they were honest!
    - pandaman 11y ago
      Just today I walked past a new BMW in the garage with a "Bernie" sticker on it. I am not sure it was in support of Sanders but even if it were not it's the perfect symbol of the engineers from the OP: people driving new BMWs supporting taxing "the rich" as if "the rich" are not them.
      - politician 11y ago
        You're engaging in a logical fallacy; have you considered that the people driving the new BMWs might consider themselves to be rich --or-- might nevertheless consider Bernie Sander's policy positions to be laudable?
notNow 11y ago
how are you going to give people free healthcare, free education... Like Germany, Canada, Sweden is doing or any other developed country with a reasonable social safety net and free market economy. It is not mission impossible like you make it sound to be
JesperRavn 11y ago
This thread is about how great it is that volunteers are coming together for a good cause. Let's keep politics out of it.

toomuchtodo 11y ago

Just joined the Coders For Sanders Slack team today, and I am blown away by the number of fellow tech professionals who've joined. Well done.

atticoos 11y ago
welcome! looking forward to seeing you around!

findjashua 11y ago

i see what you're saying. But if he's not paying them for their work, I think it'd be more 'kosher' to open source their code. And I say this as someone who supports Bernie (even though I can't vote here)

DennisP 11y ago
Or maybe open source the code after the election, just so it's not Coders for Sanders, O'Malley, Etc.
- findjashua 11y ago
  fair point
iraphael 11y ago
I don't know if this encompasses all of the CfS projects, but the reddit links to this: https://github.com/SandersForPresident https://github.com/SandersForPresident So at least some of the work is open source
atticoos 11y ago
Absolutely agreed. We open source just about all of our projects under GNUA licensing over at https://github.com/SandersForPresident https://github.com/SandersForPresident