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No shit. We took their land, killed their families and friends, and quarantined them to "reserves". Then introduced them to alcohol. What did you think would ha

by VT_Drew 11y ago

No shit. We took their land, killed their families and friends, and quarantined them to "reserves". Then introduced them to alcohol. What did you think would happen? It isn't genetics, it is escape-ism.

sp332 11y ago
Of course that is a component, but no one was sure if it was the whole story. Now we know.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
ams6110 11y ago
This is the story of all humanity up until the last couple of centuries. Tribes, countries, empires killing and conquering. It's not a uniquely American phenomenon. It's still happening in many places today. I think we need to stop leaning on past atrocities (without endorsing or excusing them in any way) as an excuse for not being responsible adults in the here and now. We can't change the past, we can only live the best life we can going forwards.
- prutschman 11y ago
  Who do you include in "we"?
- coldtea 11y ago
  >This is the story of all humanity up until the last couple of centuries. Tribes, countries, empires killing and conquering. It's not a uniquely American phenomenon. It's still happening in many places today. Americans (European settlers that is, but later Americans too) did it in an unprecedented scale -- similarly to European colonialists elsewhere at the same time. And unlike those older tribes which saw power for what it is, they presumed to have the moral high ground (and/or a "manifest destiny").
  - ta83742389 11y ago
    Unprecedented seems a little strong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_and_conquests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_and_conquests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic...
  - tsotha 11y ago
    No, it's not at all unprecedented. That's the way the world worked until the mid 20th century.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
jqm 11y ago
That stuff happened generations ago so I don't think it's the main reason there is such a drinking problem among Natives today. Having spent some time around Native Americans here are some observations. Often when they drink they get carried away and drink to excess for the session. They often don't just sit and chat while doing it but engage in some fairly crazy behavior like turning over cars etc. Alcohol does appear to affect them differently and it's not "alcoholism" like someone's Anglo uncle who sits in front of the TV quietly downing a fifth of scotch every night until his liver gives out. In my limited observations, it's more like a group of 16 year old getting blind drunk down by the river in the effects it produces. I don't think it's all environmental. I think the effects of alcohol are in general different than it is with other racial groups. Incidentally, the effects of sugar appear to also be worse as well. Go to any reservation and look at the incidents of diabetes and obesity. I don't have an explanation... maybe some of it is cultural, but I think there is a genetic/evolutionary component making the effects of alcohol and carbohydrates much more harmful to Native Americans. I think they need to keep looking.
- protomyth 11y ago
  > That stuff happened generations ago so I don't think it's the main reason there is such a drinking problem among Natives today. NO, boarding schools, forced adoption, forced relocation to urban environments happened within the current generations. Anyone thinking this is old problems has not looked at new from Indian country. "Having spent some time around Native Americans here are some observations" I am typing this from a reservation and grew up here. I am a lineal descendant on the tribal roll (not of the tribe I lived with) but missed being an enrolled member by 1/8 blood quota. My Dad is enrolled. Grouping all of the tribes is as foolish as grouping all of Europe. Dakota have very different behavior than Seminole or Navajo. What you saw is not indicative of all the tribes, but alcoholism is a problem with most. I have never observed the behavior you described. I have observed fights and violence. Diabetes and Obesity are well know problems and have a lot to do with diet of people who were exiled to places where food would not grow and hunting became scarce. A lot of "Native American" food came from that era and is not exactly healthy.
  - 11y ago

by VT_Drew 11y ago

sp332 11y ago

Of course that is a component, but no one was sure if it was the whole story. Now we know.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

ams6110 11y ago

This is the story of all humanity up until the last couple of centuries. Tribes, countries, empires killing and conquering. It's not a uniquely American phenomenon. It's still happening in many places today. I think we need to stop leaning on past atrocities (without endorsing or excusing them in any way) as an excuse for not being responsible adults in the here and now. We can't change the past, we can only live the best life we can going forwards.

prutschman 11y ago
Who do you include in "we"?
coldtea 11y ago
>This is the story of all humanity up until the last couple of centuries. Tribes, countries, empires killing and conquering. It's not a uniquely American phenomenon. It's still happening in many places today. Americans (European settlers that is, but later Americans too) did it in an unprecedented scale -- similarly to European colonialists elsewhere at the same time. And unlike those older tribes which saw power for what it is, they presumed to have the moral high ground (and/or a "manifest destiny").
- ta83742389 11y ago
  Unprecedented seems a little strong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_and_conquests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_and_conquests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic...
- tsotha 11y ago
  No, it's not at all unprecedented. That's the way the world worked until the mid 20th century.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

jqm 11y ago

That stuff happened generations ago so I don't think it's the main reason there is such a drinking problem among Natives today. Having spent some time around Native Americans here are some observations. Often when they drink they get carried away and drink to excess for the session. They often don't just sit and chat while doing it but engage in some fairly crazy behavior like turning over cars etc. Alcohol does appear to affect them differently and it's not "alcoholism" like someone's Anglo uncle who sits in front of the TV quietly downing a fifth of scotch every night until his liver gives out. In my limited observations, it's more like a group of 16 year old getting blind drunk down by the river in the effects it produces. I don't think it's all environmental. I think the effects of alcohol are in general different than it is with other racial groups. Incidentally, the effects of sugar appear to also be worse as well. Go to any reservation and look at the incidents of diabetes and obesity. I don't have an explanation... maybe some of it is cultural, but I think there is a genetic/evolutionary component making the effects of alcohol and carbohydrates much more harmful to Native Americans. I think they need to keep looking.

protomyth 11y ago
> That stuff happened generations ago so I don't think it's the main reason there is such a drinking problem among Natives today. NO, boarding schools, forced adoption, forced relocation to urban environments happened within the current generations. Anyone thinking this is old problems has not looked at new from Indian country. "Having spent some time around Native Americans here are some observations" I am typing this from a reservation and grew up here. I am a lineal descendant on the tribal roll (not of the tribe I lived with) but missed being an enrolled member by 1/8 blood quota. My Dad is enrolled. Grouping all of the tribes is as foolish as grouping all of Europe. Dakota have very different behavior than Seminole or Navajo. What you saw is not indicative of all the tribes, but alcoholism is a problem with most. I have never observed the behavior you described. I have observed fights and violence. Diabetes and Obesity are well know problems and have a lot to do with diet of people who were exiled to places where food would not grow and hunting became scarce. A lot of "Native American" food came from that era and is not exactly healthy.
- 11y ago