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Some of us have a VERY big problem with such removal without review by judge & jury. Seems the police were already there and prepared for a battle, and there's

Some of us have a VERY big problem with such removal without review by judge & jury. Seems the police were already there and prepared for a battle, and there's a viable theory they were just waiting for an excuse (not the first time such has happened in Waco, with comparably bad results). We have a judicial process for a reason, and bad things happen when "removal of such people" is taken lightly.

AnimalMuppet 11y ago
The police could well have been there because they had good reason to suspect that there was going to be trouble. > and there's a viable theory they were just waiting for an excuse But is there a viable theory that the police started the shooting? If you're going to start a shootout in town, and the police are there in force to try to stop that from happening, and you start a shootout anyway, and the police shoot you to get you to stop shooting other people, well... I don't have much room for feeling like the police are out of control there. If you have evidence that says that I misunderstood the way events happened, feel free to correct my understanding...
- kelvin0 11y ago
  Police acting as agent provocateurs is not new: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebec-police-admit-they-went-undercover-at-montebello-protest-1.656171 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebec-police-admit-they-went-...
  - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
    I get that. Is there evidence that the police were doing so in this case?
    - ctdonath 11y ago
      Such evidence is rarely obvious. Police are refusing to provide what evidence they do have (videos etc), judges have offered "we'll drop charges if you don't counter-charge", sweeping million-dollar bonds imposed on 177 people present are being seriously reduced or dropped, and other highly suspect actions are raising red flags. What we do have is narratives from bikers present, and some photographic evidence that raises doubts about who started it. There's a lot to discuss/research, so I'll just give you a couple links as major starting points. I'm not saying whether I agree/accept the theories or not, just that we don't have enough definitive evidence to support or deny the conspiracy theory. Short version: police snipers were already positioned, an undercover agent either started something or was "made", a fight was provoked and police were strangely quick to start firing. http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/05/19/biker-truthers-emerge-calling-waco-shootout-a-police-massacre/ http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/05/19/biker-truthers-eme... http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/27/waco-twin-peaks-shooting-the-crossfire/comment-page-1/ http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/27/waco-twin-pea... (Please don't launch into criticizing the messengers; this is about the message.)
    - geggam 11y ago
      hanging around a motorcycle club with weapons at the ready seems a bit suspect....generally speaking you wouldnt want to pick a fight with a biker club when everyone is present... unless you were a tax payer funded gang with no accountability and were heavily armed

AnimalMuppet 11y ago

The police could well have been there because they had good reason to suspect that there was going to be trouble. > and there's a viable theory they were just waiting for an excuse But is there a viable theory that the police started the shooting? If you're going to start a shootout in town, and the police are there in force to try to stop that from happening, and you start a shootout anyway, and the police shoot you to get you to stop shooting other people, well... I don't have much room for feeling like the police are out of control there. If you have evidence that says that I misunderstood the way events happened, feel free to correct my understanding...

kelvin0 11y ago
Police acting as agent provocateurs is not new: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebec-police-admit-they-went-undercover-at-montebello-protest-1.656171 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebec-police-admit-they-went-...
- AnimalMuppet 11y ago
  I get that. Is there evidence that the police were doing so in this case?
  - ctdonath 11y ago
    Such evidence is rarely obvious. Police are refusing to provide what evidence they do have (videos etc), judges have offered "we'll drop charges if you don't counter-charge", sweeping million-dollar bonds imposed on 177 people present are being seriously reduced or dropped, and other highly suspect actions are raising red flags. What we do have is narratives from bikers present, and some photographic evidence that raises doubts about who started it. There's a lot to discuss/research, so I'll just give you a couple links as major starting points. I'm not saying whether I agree/accept the theories or not, just that we don't have enough definitive evidence to support or deny the conspiracy theory. Short version: police snipers were already positioned, an undercover agent either started something or was "made", a fight was provoked and police were strangely quick to start firing. http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/05/19/biker-truthers-emerge-calling-waco-shootout-a-police-massacre/ http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/05/19/biker-truthers-eme... http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/27/waco-twin-peaks-shooting-the-crossfire/comment-page-1/ http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/27/waco-twin-pea... (Please don't launch into criticizing the messengers; this is about the message.)
  - geggam 11y ago
    hanging around a motorcycle club with weapons at the ready seems a bit suspect....generally speaking you wouldnt want to pick a fight with a biker club when everyone is present... unless you were a tax payer funded gang with no accountability and were heavily armed