6 ms·

TBH, if you can accept a lower standard of living, few people really need to work that much - at least in developed nations. Most people work for social pride

TBH, if you can accept a lower standard of living, few people really need to work that much - at least in developed nations. Most people work for social pride and connection to the community. Which is a good reason. I just wish we could remake how to generate this social pride. Buying a nice car or nice house shouldn't be a reason to feel proud. Teaching, doing or learning something new and useful for your community - should be.

timwaagh 11y ago
most people i know do need to work if they dont want to sleep in the streets. i program others wait tables or clean out the garbage. you think somebody does that for 'pride'? it does not matter if the country is developed or not you still have to work because real estate is expensive even if food is not. if you dont well congrats but then you (and your buddies) are one of these second generation dandies.
- vijayr 11y ago
  even if food is not. Good food is not cheap. In NYC, we pay 8$ for a decent sized watermelon - almost all fruits are expensive, and most vegetables too. Only shitty food like chips, soda, candy, fast food etc are cheap.
  - icebraining 11y ago
    Watermelon is good food? As far as I know, it's not particularly rich nutritionally, it's mostly expensive sugary water.
    - FooBarWidget 11y ago
      I beg to differ: https://www.google.com/search?q=watermelon+nutrition https://www.google.com/search?q=watermelon+nutrition 1 serving contains 31 daily percent vitamin A and 37 daily percent vitamin C, as well as a good amount of iron, vitamin B-6 and magnesium.
      - plonh 11y ago
        You can get a month supply of these vitamins for $3 by buying a bottle of Flintstones. Protein and healthy fat is where to be concerned about the cost of nutrients.
  - dragontamer 11y ago
    Watermelons are out of season dude. They're only cheap in the summer. Its fall, so citrus (ie: oranges, tangerines) and apples are now cheap. Carrots, Celery, Potatoes, Oats (Oatmeal), Breakfast Cereal, Cereal Cereal, Onions, Kidney Beans, Green Beans, Milk make a good baseline for a cheap and nutritious meals year round. You grab Broccoli in the Winter, Pineapples and Lettuce in the Spring, Cherries and Watermelons in the Summer, and Apples in the fall. Farms literally can't make Watermelons in the fall or winter, so you're importing those Watermelons from the southern hemisphere. Of course it's expensive. But in the summer, Watermelons are made locally and are probably $2 or $3 a pop. ------------------------------ If you don't know what's in season, here's a little trick. Look at the coupons at your local grocery store. Everything that is on sale is what is in-season. A sampling of my store is $5 for 5lbs of tangerines and $0.88/lb for Gala Apples. Clearly, these are the fruits in season and what I'll be eating. Eventually, as winter sets in... the prices of oranges and apples will increase while Broccoli and Winter Squash will become cheap.
    - ido 11y ago
      Being in NYC probably inflates the prices overall too.
      - dragontamer 11y ago
        Not much compared to my area, which is also one of the highest cost of living spots in the US. In fact, the primary difference is that $8 per fast food meal in NYC. The Milk, Eggs, Bread, Apples, and Potatoes are hit and miss (some cheaper where I live, some cheaper in NYC) At least according to this: www.expatistan.com/
  - eachro 11y ago
    Produce from any of the Chinatowns(Manhattan, Flushing, 8th ave) is pretty reasonable.
- aianus 11y ago
  You could program 5 hours a month remotely and make more than a university graduate working full-time in Vietnam. So yeah, the vast, vast majority of U.S. programmers are ultimately doing it out of reasons other than survival, whether they realize it or not.
  - iamcurious 11y ago
    What stops said Vietnamese for working the same 5 hours a month remotely?
    - aianus 11y ago
      Nothing, if they spoke English and had programming skills. But that's not a small if.
      - blazespin 11y ago
        And not just english, but they have to communicate well, be on the right time zone, and understand the culture as well. It's a very very rare find.
    - crpatino 11y ago
      Mostly, that it's not worth your bosses' time to micromanage you if they are going to extract merely 5 hrs/month worth of labor out of you. But nothing prevents you from working 50 hrs/week for one decade and then retire early, move to Vietnam, and live from your savings.
      - aianus 11y ago
        I say 5h/month but you can always do a freelance contract full-time for a month and then chill for four months and repeat. The point stands, if you're an American programmer and think you have to work full-time to literally just survive you're wrong.
- blazespin 11y ago
  Oh, I dunno. I have friends who live on old boats tied to mooring buoys - free of charge! They fish for a lot of their meals. They do just fine. They work a little bit around the docks, but not that much. I know other folks who live in nice, clean trailer parks. They work a little bit more, but again, not that much. If you're willing to accept a lower standard of living, there are lots of options. I remember this article about a guy living in his van. Why not? All you need is a low crime area and a place to sleep. Didn't some guy at Google live in an RV at the parking lot? When I was 19, I was paying around 50 bux a month in a shared accommodations situation. I did bartending/odd jobs about once a week and just bummed around the rest of the time. When I was 20, I did a part time waiter gig. I ate all my meals for free! Boy, I ate well. I had my own apartment though. It was utterly unnecessary, of course, but I didn't know better. Honestly, if you look around, these people exist. They are on the fringe but they do just fine. We generally call them 'bums', but you know, that's just envy talking.
DubiousPusher 11y ago
That's horse shit. I work because if I don't I have nothing. I bought a nice house because I like living in a nice house, not for pride. I have a nice car because I enjoy riding in a nice car and was tired of the stress and panic created by having to get my car running by Monday every other weekend. When you're poor, even in developed nations, that poverty is an axe blade hanging by a thread just over your head.
- blazespin 11y ago
  No, that's simply not true. And thanks to Obamacare, not even true in the US anymore. One caveat of course, is this assumes you don't have dependents. That's obviously a completely different problem. I'm glad you like your standard of living btw. Completely unnecessary of course, but hey, whatever floats your boat.
  - DubiousPusher 11y ago
    It is tempting for me to turn this into a personal attack. To decry your ignorance or delusion but because of the nobler intentions of this forum I am not going to do that. I could extract examples from my personal life of how poverty severely impacted my quality of life. But really I think the best thing I can link you to is the research. There are excellent studies that show how a single bout of homelessness causes a person's chances of imprisonment, joblessness and social disenfranchisement to skyrocket. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=effects+of+homelessness&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0CBsQgQMwAGoVChMI8tqkj8ykyAIVAqSICh2i-gtr https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=effects+of+homelessness...
  - xj9 11y ago
    Obamacare is not a social safety-net, it was a minor healthcare reform.
  - hiram112 11y ago
    In a sense it is possible when you're very young (i.e. early 20's or so). I was able to slide by at that age with minimal employment, for months at a time, followed by a few months here and there of retail / delivery work. Of course, I ate shitty food, had no access to medical/dental care (possible when you're 20 years old, not 40), lived with multiple roommates in rather cramped conditions, and lived very frugally - little going out, no girlfriends, kids, etc. We were not forced to buy health insurance, and most of us just gambled. Once you're older, all it takes in the US is one trip to the ER, a traffic accident, bad roommate, etc. to screw your life up big time. Once in a hole, it is very difficult to climb out here without serious money. The US does have some social safety net, but it doesn't really apply for a single male (with skills) that is simply choosing not to work much. Nowadays, with rents and other costs having doubled or tripled in most areas in the last 15 years, I'm not sure I could pull it off as a 23 year old in 2015 like I was able in the late 90's
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
chuckcode 11y ago
Having kids and generally rising US prices for housing, energy, childcare, school and health care certainly make it feel like I need to work. Certainly didn't feel as important before having a family. Kind of ironic as you have to work more to provide for for them materially at a time when your family most needs your presence. I for one would like to see us pay teacher in the US a lot more so they can do something good for the community and their family at the same time.
hiram112 11y ago
I'd love to be able to agree, but in the US at least, it seems like it's all or nothing. There is little possibility of trading in half my salary for a 20-25 hours work week. Instead, it's 50+ hours or nothing. Employers want complete control over your every waking hour, it seems. Even the ones screaming that they can't find skilled workers won't even consider allowing a consulting type relationship. Buying a nice house or a nice car isn't a reason to feel proud, at least for me. It's a way to signal to the opposite sex that I'm a potential worthy mate. These things tend to matter once you're a little older ;)

timwaagh 11y ago

most people i know do need to work if they dont want to sleep in the streets. i program others wait tables or clean out the garbage. you think somebody does that for 'pride'? it does not matter if the country is developed or not you still have to work because real estate is expensive even if food is not. if you dont well congrats but then you (and your buddies) are one of these second generation dandies.

vijayr 11y ago
even if food is not. Good food is not cheap. In NYC, we pay 8$ for a decent sized watermelon - almost all fruits are expensive, and most vegetables too. Only shitty food like chips, soda, candy, fast food etc are cheap.
- icebraining 11y ago
  Watermelon is good food? As far as I know, it's not particularly rich nutritionally, it's mostly expensive sugary water.
  - FooBarWidget 11y ago
    I beg to differ: https://www.google.com/search?q=watermelon+nutrition https://www.google.com/search?q=watermelon+nutrition 1 serving contains 31 daily percent vitamin A and 37 daily percent vitamin C, as well as a good amount of iron, vitamin B-6 and magnesium.
    - plonh 11y ago
      You can get a month supply of these vitamins for $3 by buying a bottle of Flintstones. Protein and healthy fat is where to be concerned about the cost of nutrients.
- dragontamer 11y ago
  Watermelons are out of season dude. They're only cheap in the summer. Its fall, so citrus (ie: oranges, tangerines) and apples are now cheap. Carrots, Celery, Potatoes, Oats (Oatmeal), Breakfast Cereal, Cereal Cereal, Onions, Kidney Beans, Green Beans, Milk make a good baseline for a cheap and nutritious meals year round. You grab Broccoli in the Winter, Pineapples and Lettuce in the Spring, Cherries and Watermelons in the Summer, and Apples in the fall. Farms literally can't make Watermelons in the fall or winter, so you're importing those Watermelons from the southern hemisphere. Of course it's expensive. But in the summer, Watermelons are made locally and are probably $2 or $3 a pop. ------------------------------ If you don't know what's in season, here's a little trick. Look at the coupons at your local grocery store. Everything that is on sale is what is in-season. A sampling of my store is $5 for 5lbs of tangerines and $0.88/lb for Gala Apples. Clearly, these are the fruits in season and what I'll be eating. Eventually, as winter sets in... the prices of oranges and apples will increase while Broccoli and Winter Squash will become cheap.
  - ido 11y ago
    Being in NYC probably inflates the prices overall too.
    - dragontamer 11y ago
      Not much compared to my area, which is also one of the highest cost of living spots in the US. In fact, the primary difference is that $8 per fast food meal in NYC. The Milk, Eggs, Bread, Apples, and Potatoes are hit and miss (some cheaper where I live, some cheaper in NYC) At least according to this: www.expatistan.com/
- eachro 11y ago
  Produce from any of the Chinatowns(Manhattan, Flushing, 8th ave) is pretty reasonable.
aianus 11y ago
You could program 5 hours a month remotely and make more than a university graduate working full-time in Vietnam. So yeah, the vast, vast majority of U.S. programmers are ultimately doing it out of reasons other than survival, whether they realize it or not.
- iamcurious 11y ago
  What stops said Vietnamese for working the same 5 hours a month remotely?
  - aianus 11y ago
    Nothing, if they spoke English and had programming skills. But that's not a small if.
    - blazespin 11y ago
      And not just english, but they have to communicate well, be on the right time zone, and understand the culture as well. It's a very very rare find.
  - crpatino 11y ago
    Mostly, that it's not worth your bosses' time to micromanage you if they are going to extract merely 5 hrs/month worth of labor out of you. But nothing prevents you from working 50 hrs/week for one decade and then retire early, move to Vietnam, and live from your savings.
    - aianus 11y ago
      I say 5h/month but you can always do a freelance contract full-time for a month and then chill for four months and repeat. The point stands, if you're an American programmer and think you have to work full-time to literally just survive you're wrong.
blazespin 11y ago
Oh, I dunno. I have friends who live on old boats tied to mooring buoys - free of charge! They fish for a lot of their meals. They do just fine. They work a little bit around the docks, but not that much. I know other folks who live in nice, clean trailer parks. They work a little bit more, but again, not that much. If you're willing to accept a lower standard of living, there are lots of options. I remember this article about a guy living in his van. Why not? All you need is a low crime area and a place to sleep. Didn't some guy at Google live in an RV at the parking lot? When I was 19, I was paying around 50 bux a month in a shared accommodations situation. I did bartending/odd jobs about once a week and just bummed around the rest of the time. When I was 20, I did a part time waiter gig. I ate all my meals for free! Boy, I ate well. I had my own apartment though. It was utterly unnecessary, of course, but I didn't know better. Honestly, if you look around, these people exist. They are on the fringe but they do just fine. We generally call them 'bums', but you know, that's just envy talking.

DubiousPusher 11y ago

That's horse shit. I work because if I don't I have nothing. I bought a nice house because I like living in a nice house, not for pride. I have a nice car because I enjoy riding in a nice car and was tired of the stress and panic created by having to get my car running by Monday every other weekend. When you're poor, even in developed nations, that poverty is an axe blade hanging by a thread just over your head.

blazespin 11y ago
No, that's simply not true. And thanks to Obamacare, not even true in the US anymore. One caveat of course, is this assumes you don't have dependents. That's obviously a completely different problem. I'm glad you like your standard of living btw. Completely unnecessary of course, but hey, whatever floats your boat.
- DubiousPusher 11y ago
  It is tempting for me to turn this into a personal attack. To decry your ignorance or delusion but because of the nobler intentions of this forum I am not going to do that. I could extract examples from my personal life of how poverty severely impacted my quality of life. But really I think the best thing I can link you to is the research. There are excellent studies that show how a single bout of homelessness causes a person's chances of imprisonment, joblessness and social disenfranchisement to skyrocket. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=effects+of+homelessness&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0CBsQgQMwAGoVChMI8tqkj8ykyAIVAqSICh2i-gtr https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=effects+of+homelessness...
- xj9 11y ago
  Obamacare is not a social safety-net, it was a minor healthcare reform.
- hiram112 11y ago
  In a sense it is possible when you're very young (i.e. early 20's or so). I was able to slide by at that age with minimal employment, for months at a time, followed by a few months here and there of retail / delivery work. Of course, I ate shitty food, had no access to medical/dental care (possible when you're 20 years old, not 40), lived with multiple roommates in rather cramped conditions, and lived very frugally - little going out, no girlfriends, kids, etc. We were not forced to buy health insurance, and most of us just gambled. Once you're older, all it takes in the US is one trip to the ER, a traffic accident, bad roommate, etc. to screw your life up big time. Once in a hole, it is very difficult to climb out here without serious money. The US does have some social safety net, but it doesn't really apply for a single male (with skills) that is simply choosing not to work much. Nowadays, with rents and other costs having doubled or tripled in most areas in the last 15 years, I'm not sure I could pull it off as a 23 year old in 2015 like I was able in the late 90's

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

chuckcode 11y ago

Having kids and generally rising US prices for housing, energy, childcare, school and health care certainly make it feel like I need to work. Certainly didn't feel as important before having a family. Kind of ironic as you have to work more to provide for for them materially at a time when your family most needs your presence. I for one would like to see us pay teacher in the US a lot more so they can do something good for the community and their family at the same time.

hiram112 11y ago

I'd love to be able to agree, but in the US at least, it seems like it's all or nothing. There is little possibility of trading in half my salary for a 20-25 hours work week. Instead, it's 50+ hours or nothing. Employers want complete control over your every waking hour, it seems. Even the ones screaming that they can't find skilled workers won't even consider allowing a consulting type relationship. Buying a nice house or a nice car isn't a reason to feel proud, at least for me. It's a way to signal to the opposite sex that I'm a potential worthy mate. These things tend to matter once you're a little older ;)