4 ms·

You're doing yourself a disservice. Intellij (PyCharm) has a vi plugin. Whatever extra stuff you give up from regular Vim, you gain an order of magnitude of p

You're doing yourself a disservice. Intellij (PyCharm) has a vi plugin. Whatever extra stuff you give up from regular Vim, you gain an order of magnitude of productivity using a development environment that is "smart". Think about what PyCharm does for you and what Vim doesn't. Vi(m) is a model, not an implementation. I wish people would stop handicapping themselves with very bad implementations. Intellij, Visual Studio (Resharper) understands the languages your working in. Let the machine do what it does best and aid you in the language while you concentrate on domain.

alaaibrahim 11y ago
> Vi(m) is a model, not an implementation. I think you are talking about modal editing, vi is an application, vim is another application.
- mikerichards 11y ago
  Yes, I understand the differences, thus the (m). The point I was trying to make (which irked somebody) is that the modal vi keybindings in modern IDEs is more important than Vi(m) itself.
oneJob 11y ago
In that spirit, I find it hilarious that the entire industry proudly releases products weekly that do things like re-order laundry detergent at the press of a button or games that require the player to do nothing more than swipe their finger this way or that. On the other hand then there is this long raging religious war over the tools used to build these products where some claim the end all be all is this text only, esoteric, super high learning curve tool. Sure it's superpowerful once mastered, but as in so many other areas, the argument that you just made seems to carry the day: let the machine do the work. Also, Minority Report.
- danso 11y ago
  Text-interfaces are the most direct and flexible way to get the machine to do work. When you're stuck to a consumer-friendly GUI, you can only command the computer the way the product has been designed to command the computer. You learn how to use a product rather than how to teach the computer. That said, of course I use a web browser for 99% of my Internet actions. But being able to Alt-Tab into the terminal and run wget to quickly pull down a list of files may feel like 1970s-era, but it's still a powerful technique today, and for as long as users need to do things beyond what designers intended them to.
  - oneJob 11y ago
    Respectfully, I propose you are limiting yourself when using left-to-right text-interfaces. I think consumer-friendly may be a bit unfair as well. I'm currently learning sign language and in parallel programming a Leap Motion interface so as to bypass one-dimension (a line of symbols) and two-dimensions (a gui on a plane) and more easily encapsulate concepts (words) by states of motion in three dimensions. Text-interfaces work well because they restrict input to precise parameters, however as interfaces become "smarter" and are able to capture the meaning of imprecise interfaces such as hand gestures and interpret them precisely without requiring the user to deliver them with robotic precision, interfaces will become more expressive, we will be able to work more naturally in the domain in which we think, which is, these physical three dimensions. If you've ever watched a mathematics professor write on the chalk board you'll know what I mean. So expressive. So much conveyed with so few markings. And yet, very sloppy. But still. Reading it off the board, those symbols just feel so much better in your head than any words would.
devnonymous 11y ago
> Vi(m) is a model, not an implementaion No, vim is an editor, not a model (whatever that means) and definitely not an IDE. These are very different things. I use vim to edit all sorts of text (including for instance this text box, using It'sAllText[1] ). Why would I use an IDE for that ? That'd be silly now, wouldn't it ? ...and at least for me, once I got used to using vim, I didn't see how the IDE could better '...aid you in the launguage ...' than vim itself. [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/its-all-text/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/its-all-text/
rajathagasthya 11y ago
I think PyCharm is awesome, but the reason I switched to vim is because I have to code on a remote machine especially when I don't have a Vagrant synced folder setup. I'd love to try vi key bindings on PyCharm, though!

alaaibrahim 11y ago

> Vi(m) is a model, not an implementation. I think you are talking about modal editing, vi is an application, vim is another application.

mikerichards 11y ago
Yes, I understand the differences, thus the (m). The point I was trying to make (which irked somebody) is that the modal vi keybindings in modern IDEs is more important than Vi(m) itself.

oneJob 11y ago

In that spirit, I find it hilarious that the entire industry proudly releases products weekly that do things like re-order laundry detergent at the press of a button or games that require the player to do nothing more than swipe their finger this way or that. On the other hand then there is this long raging religious war over the tools used to build these products where some claim the end all be all is this text only, esoteric, super high learning curve tool. Sure it's superpowerful once mastered, but as in so many other areas, the argument that you just made seems to carry the day: let the machine do the work. Also, Minority Report.

danso 11y ago
Text-interfaces are the most direct and flexible way to get the machine to do work. When you're stuck to a consumer-friendly GUI, you can only command the computer the way the product has been designed to command the computer. You learn how to use a product rather than how to teach the computer. That said, of course I use a web browser for 99% of my Internet actions. But being able to Alt-Tab into the terminal and run wget to quickly pull down a list of files may feel like 1970s-era, but it's still a powerful technique today, and for as long as users need to do things beyond what designers intended them to.
- oneJob 11y ago
  Respectfully, I propose you are limiting yourself when using left-to-right text-interfaces. I think consumer-friendly may be a bit unfair as well. I'm currently learning sign language and in parallel programming a Leap Motion interface so as to bypass one-dimension (a line of symbols) and two-dimensions (a gui on a plane) and more easily encapsulate concepts (words) by states of motion in three dimensions. Text-interfaces work well because they restrict input to precise parameters, however as interfaces become "smarter" and are able to capture the meaning of imprecise interfaces such as hand gestures and interpret them precisely without requiring the user to deliver them with robotic precision, interfaces will become more expressive, we will be able to work more naturally in the domain in which we think, which is, these physical three dimensions. If you've ever watched a mathematics professor write on the chalk board you'll know what I mean. So expressive. So much conveyed with so few markings. And yet, very sloppy. But still. Reading it off the board, those symbols just feel so much better in your head than any words would.

devnonymous 11y ago

> Vi(m) is a model, not an implementaion No, vim is an editor, not a model (whatever that means) and definitely not an IDE. These are very different things. I use vim to edit all sorts of text (including for instance this text box, using It'sAllText[1] ). Why would I use an IDE for that ? That'd be silly now, wouldn't it ? ...and at least for me, once I got used to using vim, I didn't see how the IDE could better '...aid you in the launguage ...' than vim itself. [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/its-all-text/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/its-all-text/

rajathagasthya 11y ago

I think PyCharm is awesome, but the reason I switched to vim is because I have to code on a remote machine especially when I don't have a Vagrant synced folder setup. I'd love to try vi key bindings on PyCharm, though!